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I still think Apple products are built on human rights abuses. I am currently trying to parse their most recent conflict minerals disclosure. It doesn't explici

I still think Apple products are built on human rights abuses. I am currently trying to parse their most recent conflict minerals disclosure. It doesn't explicitly say "yes" but also doesn't clearly say "conflict-free" either.

Vinnl 7y ago
Note that conflict-free at this time is so hard to be practically impossible. Fairphone, a company and phone founded explicitly with the goal of producing a phone without conflict minerals, still isn't conflict-free, and it's not for lack of trying. Sure, Apple has more leverage, considering their size, but that also comes with its own set of problems. Plus, their customers have nowhere to go to in protest - all other phones are full of conflict minerals too.
- jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
  I understand it's hard to make conflict-free computers. I feel sick when apple says they are deeply committed to upholding human rights, while they continue manufacturing electronics, because I need authenticity. I would like Apple to use more of their resources to figure out how to do conflict-free consumer electronics.
  - Vinnl 7y ago
    > I would like Apple to use more of their resources to figure out how to do conflict-free consumer electronics. I would like that as well, but I understand how that's difficult for them to do, too: making public that you're working on that, is also making public the deficiencies you have in that area currently - something many consumers are not aware of, and of which they may think it applies only to you. That's why initiatives like Fairphone's are good. That said, I've followed their blog [1] for a while, and occasionally they've been part of initiatives of which other phone manufacturers have been part as well (I recall something about Nokia and Congo). I think they just don't publicise that for the reasons I outlined above. [1] https://www.fairphone.com/en/blog/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/blog/
tinus_hn 7y ago
I’m sure you also love to complain about the problems at the Foxconn ‘Apple factory’. Which in reality builds products for all manufacturers.
- efaref 7y ago
  So "everyone else does it" is a valid defense? Apple charges $1k for their monitor stands. I think they can afford to build their stuff at a factory that doesn't use modern slavery.
  - gurkendoktor 7y ago
    I agree that Apple is incredibly greedy and hypocritical, but in the end, working at Foxconn is just another underpaid job. I think the term "modern slavery" should be reserved for people whose passport has been taken away, who are trapped on a fishing boat or in a brothel for life, who have been tricked into accepting debt etc.
  - tinus_hn 7y ago
    So “selling your items for cheap” is a valid defense?
- jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
  I just wanted to express to rawrmaan that I felt disturbed about his calling apple brave and moral when many aspects of their supply chain don't appeal to my sense of justice.

Vinnl 7y ago

Note that conflict-free at this time is so hard to be practically impossible. Fairphone, a company and phone founded explicitly with the goal of producing a phone without conflict minerals, still isn't conflict-free, and it's not for lack of trying. Sure, Apple has more leverage, considering their size, but that also comes with its own set of problems. Plus, their customers have nowhere to go to in protest - all other phones are full of conflict minerals too.

jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
I understand it's hard to make conflict-free computers. I feel sick when apple says they are deeply committed to upholding human rights, while they continue manufacturing electronics, because I need authenticity. I would like Apple to use more of their resources to figure out how to do conflict-free consumer electronics.
- Vinnl 7y ago
  > I would like Apple to use more of their resources to figure out how to do conflict-free consumer electronics. I would like that as well, but I understand how that's difficult for them to do, too: making public that you're working on that, is also making public the deficiencies you have in that area currently - something many consumers are not aware of, and of which they may think it applies only to you. That's why initiatives like Fairphone's are good. That said, I've followed their blog [1] for a while, and occasionally they've been part of initiatives of which other phone manufacturers have been part as well (I recall something about Nokia and Congo). I think they just don't publicise that for the reasons I outlined above. [1] https://www.fairphone.com/en/blog/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/blog/

tinus_hn 7y ago

I’m sure you also love to complain about the problems at the Foxconn ‘Apple factory’. Which in reality builds products for all manufacturers.

efaref 7y ago
So "everyone else does it" is a valid defense? Apple charges $1k for their monitor stands. I think they can afford to build their stuff at a factory that doesn't use modern slavery.
- gurkendoktor 7y ago
  I agree that Apple is incredibly greedy and hypocritical, but in the end, working at Foxconn is just another underpaid job. I think the term "modern slavery" should be reserved for people whose passport has been taken away, who are trapped on a fishing boat or in a brothel for life, who have been tricked into accepting debt etc.
- tinus_hn 7y ago
  So “selling your items for cheap” is a valid defense?
jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
I just wanted to express to rawrmaan that I felt disturbed about his calling apple brave and moral when many aspects of their supply chain don't appeal to my sense of justice.