4 ms·

I'd prefer to first read an article about why I would ever want to work for Microsoft in the first place.

by dstein 16y ago

tomerico 16y ago
I'm not claiming that Microsoft is the best company to work for. But - the "I'm to good to work at company X" attitude will not lead you far. Especially if you say that on Microsoft which still has some of the world greatest minds.
- nailer 16y ago
  The windows and office company still has the worlds greatest minds? There's no working web office, they threw their mobile efforts away. They disbanded their browser team. What makes you think they're smart?
  - motters 16y ago
    Indeed. Smart is as smart does. I did once apply to work for Microsoft about five years ago, but didn't get anywhere. Now I don't really care about Microsoft, rarely use any of their products and no longer think of them as a desirable company to work for.
  - barrkel 16y ago
    Some of the guys who work on .NET in particular are the best in the world at what they do; but it's so highly specialized that there are very few other places they could work where they would simultaneously have their code used so much in practice, and where they would be able to focus as narrowly. And the Linux world in particular could do with someone like Raymond Chen (IMO).
  - Dn_Ab 16y ago
    Occams razor and statistical reasoning. The likelihood that the population contains a (normal) distribution with a not smart mean while also containing enough technical sophistication to create the products they do seems low. no business skill Implies no intelligence is false since Intelligence => Business Skill is false. Business Skill is not necessary for intelligence.
    - nailer 16y ago
      Microsoft's last major revenue making product was ms office. People want to work for successful companies, Microsoft, despite residual income from previous successes, is no longer successful. Not successful at mobile, not succesful at search, not successful for web development. Occam's razor, people don't want to work for Microsoft.
      - kevin_morrill 16y ago
        Not really true at all. All of their Server and Tools Division grew to a multi-billion dollar business long after MS Office attained dominance. SharePoint, a $1 billion+ product is just one example.
        nailer 16y ago
        What percent of ms profits do those make? That's what I thought.
        kevin_morrill 16y ago
        In 2011 Q1 for the company, Server and Tools was $3.9 billion. For comparison, in the same quarter Windows was $4.7 billion. So it's a business segment largely created in the past 10 years that is 82% of the size of Windows (one of the most profitable business franchises in the history of mankind). In the past 10 years the company has tripled revenues and is now the 3rd most profitable company in the Fortune 500 behind just Exxon and Chevron. I hope my startup should be so fortunate as to make that kind of money. I'd gladly put up with all the ridicule Microsoft gets in the tech community, as I laugh all the way to the bank.
- dstein 16y ago
  I'm to good to work at company X That's not what I was implying. Any article titled "How to land a job at X" should probably go into a bit of detail about why X is a desirable place to work, learn, and grow as a developer. The article doesn't explain at all why Microsoft would be such a such a place, instead jumping straight to the conclusion about how to get a job there.
  - tomerico 16y ago
    When you said "why I would ever want to work for Microsoft". I certainly didn't see it as a criticism towards the article but towards Microsoft as a company to work for.
    - dstein 16y ago
      Oh, I have criticisms for Microsoft, but not because I think I'm too good to work there. I would need to read a lot of very good reasons to make me want to work on one of Microsoft's many dying product lines and how to cope with their smug corporate attitude, etc...
bbarthel 16y ago
Much has been written and disseminated about their culture, benefits and compensation practices. They are one of the largest software companies in the world with a publicly recognized name. Their product offerings span just about everything you would want to do with a computer. They have (historically) been a very stable source of employment, with a good compensation and benefit package, along with a full career path for developers (a rarity in most companies it seems). Unfortunately, their business practices have also left some developers with a bad taste in their mouth (whether through their previously predatory nature, or their current lack of a cohesive approach to the web). Given that Microsoft is a well-known entity in the developer world (and frankly the larger US-culture), I will assume that you fall into on of those categories, in which case Microsoft will need much more than perks and salary (of which they apparently have many - I am not affiliated nor have I ever been affiliated with them) to sway you. On the other hand, there are plenty of folks out there who may not have the same negative experiences with MS and, based on everything I said above, would consider the company an excellent place to work.

I'd prefer to first read an article about why I would ever want to work for Microsoft in the first place.

by dstein 16y ago

I'd prefer to first read an article about why I would ever want to work for Microsoft in the first place.

I'm not claiming that Microsoft is the best company to work for. But - the "I'm to good to work at company X" attitude will not lead you far. Especially if you say that on Microsoft which still has some of the world greatest minds.

nailer 16y ago
The windows and office company still has the worlds greatest minds? There's no working web office, they threw their mobile efforts away. They disbanded their browser team. What makes you think they're smart?
- motters 16y ago
  Indeed. Smart is as smart does. I did once apply to work for Microsoft about five years ago, but didn't get anywhere. Now I don't really care about Microsoft, rarely use any of their products and no longer think of them as a desirable company to work for.
- barrkel 16y ago
  Some of the guys who work on .NET in particular are the best in the world at what they do; but it's so highly specialized that there are very few other places they could work where they would simultaneously have their code used so much in practice, and where they would be able to focus as narrowly. And the Linux world in particular could do with someone like Raymond Chen (IMO).
- Dn_Ab 16y ago
  Occams razor and statistical reasoning. The likelihood that the population contains a (normal) distribution with a not smart mean while also containing enough technical sophistication to create the products they do seems low. no business skill Implies no intelligence is false since Intelligence => Business Skill is false. Business Skill is not necessary for intelligence.
  - nailer 16y ago
    Microsoft's last major revenue making product was ms office. People want to work for successful companies, Microsoft, despite residual income from previous successes, is no longer successful. Not successful at mobile, not succesful at search, not successful for web development. Occam's razor, people don't want to work for Microsoft.
    - kevin_morrill 16y ago
      Not really true at all. All of their Server and Tools Division grew to a multi-billion dollar business long after MS Office attained dominance. SharePoint, a $1 billion+ product is just one example.
      - nailer 16y ago
        What percent of ms profits do those make? That's what I thought.
        kevin_morrill 16y ago
        In 2011 Q1 for the company, Server and Tools was $3.9 billion. For comparison, in the same quarter Windows was $4.7 billion. So it's a business segment largely created in the past 10 years that is 82% of the size of Windows (one of the most profitable business franchises in the history of mankind). In the past 10 years the company has tripled revenues and is now the 3rd most profitable company in the Fortune 500 behind just Exxon and Chevron. I hope my startup should be so fortunate as to make that kind of money. I'd gladly put up with all the ridicule Microsoft gets in the tech community, as I laugh all the way to the bank.
dstein 16y ago
I'm to good to work at company X That's not what I was implying. Any article titled "How to land a job at X" should probably go into a bit of detail about why X is a desirable place to work, learn, and grow as a developer. The article doesn't explain at all why Microsoft would be such a such a place, instead jumping straight to the conclusion about how to get a job there.
- tomerico 16y ago
  When you said "why I would ever want to work for Microsoft". I certainly didn't see it as a criticism towards the article but towards Microsoft as a company to work for.
  - dstein 16y ago
    Oh, I have criticisms for Microsoft, but not because I think I'm too good to work there. I would need to read a lot of very good reasons to make me want to work on one of Microsoft's many dying product lines and how to cope with their smug corporate attitude, etc...

bbarthel 16y ago

Much has been written and disseminated about their culture, benefits and compensation practices. They are one of the largest software companies in the world with a publicly recognized name. Their product offerings span just about everything you would want to do with a computer. They have (historically) been a very stable source of employment, with a good compensation and benefit package, along with a full career path for developers (a rarity in most companies it seems). Unfortunately, their business practices have also left some developers with a bad taste in their mouth (whether through their previously predatory nature, or their current lack of a cohesive approach to the web). Given that Microsoft is a well-known entity in the developer world (and frankly the larger US-culture), I will assume that you fall into on of those categories, in which case Microsoft will need much more than perks and salary (of which they apparently have many - I am not affiliated nor have I ever been affiliated with them) to sway you. On the other hand, there are plenty of folks out there who may not have the same negative experiences with MS and, based on everything I said above, would consider the company an excellent place to work.