5 ms·

The teens who build the iPhones

12 points by cwan 16y ago

sjs 16y ago
Video is private, not really much to see here without it.
nnutter 16y ago
Video is private and the text is just a synopsis of a linked article. If you actually follow to the article you will find an editorial not journalism. It uses words to imply communism and describes an awful day such as getting up at 6am, leaving for work by 6:40, eating on the go, and working long hours for overtime. All while repeatedly says that the conditions are better than elsewhere in China. Yet the title is "Why I don't want an iPhone for Christmas" and not "Why I won't buy 'Made in China' products."
- glenra 16y ago
  The conditions on an electronics assembly line tend to be amazingly better than elsewhere in China for a very simple reason: the product demands it. When you are assembling electronics, the space in which you do it needs to be temperature controlled, humidity controlled, dust-free, well-lit, with the right tools available for each task at hand and a stable source of electricity (including backup generators) making sure this continues to be the case. Also, the workers shouldn't be too tired. Violate any of those conditions by much and the assembled product doesn't work reliably, fails its acceptance tests, causing the company to lose business to somebody more meticulous. You might be thinking, "Okay, so there's decent lighting and air conditioning and dust control and power - big deal!" If you are thinking that, you have obviously never been to Dongguan in August. :-)
coryl 16y ago
Found a mirror for the video: http://www.lavie.fr/actualite/monde/dans-l-enfer-du-high-tech-chinois-23-12-2010-12724_5.php http://www.lavie.fr/actualite/monde/dans-l-enfer-du-high-tec...
ErrantX 16y ago
So, checking the video; looks like some reasonable improvements. And yet, CNN are spinning the story as "OMG, teens make your iPhone". If I recall correctly, I spent all summer whilst 17, 18 and 19 working shifts to earn money for uni/college. There is a determined effort here to paint conditions as terrible, third world and oppressive. I'm not so sure it's accurate. As I commented on the original story (when it first did the rounds) there is a huge cultural difference between here and there, so we must judge carefully in these matters. For example; the long hours are, sure, pretty sucky. But culturally that is how a lot of Chinese people work; long and hard. Those on my course at university were usually the last to leave the department at night, for example (3 or 4am sometimes). That's not to say anyone would like to work this job and want long hours; but it's a misunderstanding to see that as immediately abusive. Even worse; China has a huge population problem, one we can't really imagine facing. What exactly are these people supposed to do to earn money? Yes, there is ample opportunity to abuse such a problem. And, yes, I am sure it does happen. This sort of reporting is essential in making sure it doesn't happen wherever we can stop it. But it would be nice to see a little more common sense (i.e. rationality) applied to the way it is reported. Of course, such an approach doesn't "sell papers" :) The real problem here is the huge socio-economic problem China is facing. Not buying Chinese goods might even be counter-productive. If grass roots action closes a Chinese factory, what is the impact, and who feels it? This is not a simple problem solved with outrage, but with calm forceful communication with the manufacturer. It seems to have somewhat worked in this case, going by the improvements.
- verbot 16y ago
  > I spent all summer whilst 17, 18 and 19 working shifts to earn money for uni/college. In a country with health regulations, human rights laws, environmental protections, universal health care (including for if you get injured on the job), freedom of expression, vacation time, and a home to return to so you didn't have to live at work. Let's not pretend that your situations are essentially the same. They aren't. > There is a determined effort here to paint conditions as terrible, third world and oppressive. There's a determined effort here to minimize the plight of people working factory jobs in third-world conditions. Because we don't want to feel guilty? > there is a huge cultural difference between here and there, so we must judge carefully in these matters. Your cultural relativism is a non-argument. In some cultures, it is "normal" to repress women, forbid schooling to girls, and use young boys as sex slaves. American companies will even pay for it, because, you know, "cultural relativism". http://articles.cnn.com/2009-10-26/world/ctw.afghanistan.sex.trade_1_boys-afghan-dance?_s=PM:WORLD http://articles.cnn.com/2009-10-26/world/ctw.afghanistan.sex... http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/12/wikileaks_texas_company_helped.php http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/12/wikileaks_te... "As we mentioned, this isn't DynCorp's first brush with the sex-slavery game. Back in Bosnia in 1999, US policewoman Kathryn Bolkovac was fired from DynCorp after blowing the whistle on a sex-slave ring operating on one of our bases there. DynCorp's employees were accused of raping and peddling girls as young as 12 from countries like Ukraine, Moldova and Romania." What next? > Not buying Chinese goods might even be counter-productive. If grass roots action closes a Chinese factory, what is the impact, and who feels it? How do you think worker protections were won in "civilized" countries? Conditions in the U.S. and U.K. were once much worse than in this particular Chinese factory. People fought and died to get their rights enshrined into law. Part of that process can be to let the more abusive companies fail, and support ones that have a better track record. > But culturally that is how a lot of Chinese people work; long and hard. The sentiment behind this is just utterly stupid. I suppose you'll follow up with a nice parable about how the railroads were built. People don't want to HAVE to work long and hard, especially unnecessarily. When you look at wealth distribution, it's apparent that the majority of people are getting fleeced. http://www.good.is/post/americans-are-horribly-misinformed-about-who-has-money/ http://www.good.is/post/americans-are-horribly-misinformed-a...
CBizzle 16y ago
Apple and HP can't demand that these workers work shorter shifts and have two days off per week?! WTF?!!
code_duck 16y ago
Do these articles focus on Apple because it is perceived as a luxury brand? What are the conditions like for workers who build HTC, Samsung or Motorola phones? How about every other product in China? I'd love to see 'the people who assemble the portable heater you bought at WalMart' or 'these are the Chinese prison slaves who make your gloves for Target'.
modeless 16y ago
I suppose these people would rather have us stop buying iPhones, have Foxconn go out of business, and have all these teens go back to their poverty-stricken villages for a life of subsistence farming? After all, capitalist factory owners are evil, while living off the land is virtuous and pure! Or something.
ez77 16y ago
The West in general, and the US in particular, will soon reach an unsustainable point where simply too much stuff is made elsewhere. Naturally, just as for decades media (and hence people) looked the other way, the abusive labor conditions that made Walmart and our $400 computers possible will now become front and center of more and more news stories. This much, to me, is pretty certain. The consequences of clashing over this with China, however, are very much a mystery.

12 points by cwan 16y ago

sjs 16y ago

Video is private, not really much to see here without it.

Video is private and the text is just a synopsis of a linked article. If you actually follow to the article you will find an editorial not journalism. It uses words to imply communism and describes an awful day such as getting up at 6am, leaving for work by 6:40, eating on the go, and working long hours for overtime. All while repeatedly says that the conditions are better than elsewhere in China. Yet the title is "Why I don't want an iPhone for Christmas" and not "Why I won't buy 'Made in China' products."

glenra 16y ago
The conditions on an electronics assembly line tend to be amazingly better than elsewhere in China for a very simple reason: the product demands it. When you are assembling electronics, the space in which you do it needs to be temperature controlled, humidity controlled, dust-free, well-lit, with the right tools available for each task at hand and a stable source of electricity (including backup generators) making sure this continues to be the case. Also, the workers shouldn't be too tired. Violate any of those conditions by much and the assembled product doesn't work reliably, fails its acceptance tests, causing the company to lose business to somebody more meticulous. You might be thinking, "Okay, so there's decent lighting and air conditioning and dust control and power - big deal!" If you are thinking that, you have obviously never been to Dongguan in August. :-)

coryl 16y ago

Found a mirror for the video: http://www.lavie.fr/actualite/monde/dans-l-enfer-du-high-tech-chinois-23-12-2010-12724_5.php http://www.lavie.fr/actualite/monde/dans-l-enfer-du-high-tec...

ErrantX 16y ago

So, checking the video; looks like some reasonable improvements. And yet, CNN are spinning the story as "OMG, teens make your iPhone". If I recall correctly, I spent all summer whilst 17, 18 and 19 working shifts to earn money for uni/college. There is a determined effort here to paint conditions as terrible, third world and oppressive. I'm not so sure it's accurate. As I commented on the original story (when it first did the rounds) there is a huge cultural difference between here and there, so we must judge carefully in these matters. For example; the long hours are, sure, pretty sucky. But culturally that is how a lot of Chinese people work; long and hard. Those on my course at university were usually the last to leave the department at night, for example (3 or 4am sometimes). That's not to say anyone would like to work this job and want long hours; but it's a misunderstanding to see that as immediately abusive. Even worse; China has a huge population problem, one we can't really imagine facing. What exactly are these people supposed to do to earn money? Yes, there is ample opportunity to abuse such a problem. And, yes, I am sure it does happen. This sort of reporting is essential in making sure it doesn't happen wherever we can stop it. But it would be nice to see a little more common sense (i.e. rationality) applied to the way it is reported. Of course, such an approach doesn't "sell papers" :) The real problem here is the huge socio-economic problem China is facing. Not buying Chinese goods might even be counter-productive. If grass roots action closes a Chinese factory, what is the impact, and who feels it? This is not a simple problem solved with outrage, but with calm forceful communication with the manufacturer. It seems to have somewhat worked in this case, going by the improvements.

verbot 16y ago
> I spent all summer whilst 17, 18 and 19 working shifts to earn money for uni/college. In a country with health regulations, human rights laws, environmental protections, universal health care (including for if you get injured on the job), freedom of expression, vacation time, and a home to return to so you didn't have to live at work. Let's not pretend that your situations are essentially the same. They aren't. > There is a determined effort here to paint conditions as terrible, third world and oppressive. There's a determined effort here to minimize the plight of people working factory jobs in third-world conditions. Because we don't want to feel guilty? > there is a huge cultural difference between here and there, so we must judge carefully in these matters. Your cultural relativism is a non-argument. In some cultures, it is "normal" to repress women, forbid schooling to girls, and use young boys as sex slaves. American companies will even pay for it, because, you know, "cultural relativism". http://articles.cnn.com/2009-10-26/world/ctw.afghanistan.sex.trade_1_boys-afghan-dance?_s=PM:WORLD http://articles.cnn.com/2009-10-26/world/ctw.afghanistan.sex... http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/12/wikileaks_texas_company_helped.php http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/12/wikileaks_te... "As we mentioned, this isn't DynCorp's first brush with the sex-slavery game. Back in Bosnia in 1999, US policewoman Kathryn Bolkovac was fired from DynCorp after blowing the whistle on a sex-slave ring operating on one of our bases there. DynCorp's employees were accused of raping and peddling girls as young as 12 from countries like Ukraine, Moldova and Romania." What next? > Not buying Chinese goods might even be counter-productive. If grass roots action closes a Chinese factory, what is the impact, and who feels it? How do you think worker protections were won in "civilized" countries? Conditions in the U.S. and U.K. were once much worse than in this particular Chinese factory. People fought and died to get their rights enshrined into law. Part of that process can be to let the more abusive companies fail, and support ones that have a better track record. > But culturally that is how a lot of Chinese people work; long and hard. The sentiment behind this is just utterly stupid. I suppose you'll follow up with a nice parable about how the railroads were built. People don't want to HAVE to work long and hard, especially unnecessarily. When you look at wealth distribution, it's apparent that the majority of people are getting fleeced. http://www.good.is/post/americans-are-horribly-misinformed-about-who-has-money/ http://www.good.is/post/americans-are-horribly-misinformed-a...

CBizzle 16y ago

Apple and HP can't demand that these workers work shorter shifts and have two days off per week?! WTF?!!

code_duck 16y ago

Do these articles focus on Apple because it is perceived as a luxury brand? What are the conditions like for workers who build HTC, Samsung or Motorola phones? How about every other product in China? I'd love to see 'the people who assemble the portable heater you bought at WalMart' or 'these are the Chinese prison slaves who make your gloves for Target'.

modeless 16y ago

I suppose these people would rather have us stop buying iPhones, have Foxconn go out of business, and have all these teens go back to their poverty-stricken villages for a life of subsistence farming? After all, capitalist factory owners are evil, while living off the land is virtuous and pure! Or something.

ez77 16y ago

The West in general, and the US in particular, will soon reach an unsustainable point where simply too much stuff is made elsewhere. Naturally, just as for decades media (and hence people) looked the other way, the abusive labor conditions that made Walmart and our $400 computers possible will now become front and center of more and more news stories. This much, to me, is pretty certain. The consequences of clashing over this with China, however, are very much a mystery.