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> If I have 20% more APM than you do I beat you even if I totally pick the wrong units and build order? Thing is, you are probably going to pick units that req
by Iv 7y ago
> If I have 20% more APM than you do I beat you even if I totally pick the wrong units and build order?
Thing is, you are probably going to pick units that require more APM. Some units like the blink stalker really benefit from micro-management if you can do them quick enough. If you have enough APMs to juggle 5 or 6 immortals out of 2 warp prisms, you have a huge advantage even in front of an opponent with a superior strategy.
And in the previous rounds, AlphaStar did have heavy APM limitations but they were criticized a lot because they allowed for very high APMs bursts. Being able to perfectly micro-manage engagements of 20+ blink stalker is going to do the equivalent of doubling your unit count.
The other thing that differs from a human is that as the APM increases, the precision can suffer. Humans will misclick, will fail to select all the units they want, etc... AlphaStar will not because it essentially sees Starcraft as a turn-based game and can react perfectly to each tick.
> Could a super smart bot win against pro's even if it's limited to 20% less APM?
AlphaStar cheesy game against Mana (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKX6AcgFOZU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKX6AcgFOZU) convinces me that yes. It already happened, with a very creative strategy and adaptation.
- on_and_off 7y agoIt makes sense to impose such heavy limitations to AlphaStar in order to have it demonstrate its mastery of the strategic aspects of starcraft. I am looking forward to seeing it applied to a problem where we don't tie one its hand behind its back though. There are probably real life situations (hopefully not war, although that will happen for sure) where being able to focus on 10 things at the same time and react extremely quickly without any fatigue would make an AI way more performant than humans. Come to think of it, fatigue might manifest in thermal throttling unless we conceive its chassis better than we do our phones and laptops.
- Iv 7y agoI can't wait for Starcraft III and having AlphaStar roleplay one of my lieutenants.
- on_and_off 7y agothat would be fun to see. One more reason why I am saddened that SupCom is not more popular. It would be very interesting to see AlphaSC trounce humans at this game. The far away view that was called "cheating" in the alphaStar exib match ? In this game it is just what high level players use most of the time (the zoom level is free.. from way too close to a continental view)
- tapland 7y agoDuring the DeepMind vs Pro Players show games DeepMind was limited to about 300 apm average, but had bursts over 1500 apm (that is blinking 12.5 stalkers individually every second) which made battle very unrealistic. An AI which doesn't misclick or toggle between buildings constantly should in the long run probably be limited to a much lower burst apm to be comparable to humans.