5 ms·

I'm with pg on this, starting a company with someone is a bigger commitment than getting married and without the physical chemistry to help things through tough

by eloff 7y ago

I'm with pg on this, starting a company with someone is a bigger commitment than getting married and without the physical chemistry to help things through tough spots. You'd be crazy to do that with someone you just met. I can't help thinking you'd actually be decreasing your odds of success versus just being a single founder. I'll stay a single founder and I feel that's the right decision for me. I can weather the highs and lows. I remain curious to see if the data will back this up more generally. Long term this could be a good idea to meet people with similar interests, but to partner with for your next startup maybe. Not for now.

mrep 7y ago
> starting a company with someone is a bigger commitment than getting married How? You can leave a company you founded at any any time without any financial repercussions usually but marriages you cannot unless you get a prenup (which probably costs legal fees) and that's not even including the ring nor wedding.
- TuringNYC 7y ago
  >>>> starting a company with someone is a bigger commitment than getting married >> How? You can leave a company you founded at any any time without any financial repercussions Absolutely not! Leaving a company has huge financial repercussions! If you have no agreement, you are either killing the company (as everyone disbands) or end up with either no ownership or end up with some uncertain amount of ownership as all the owners fight amongst themselves. If you do have a vesting agreement, you've usually lost everything if you haven't reached your 1st year cliff vest. Either way -- you've lost a lot -- 0. You've "lost" all the work you put in (often at zero or low salary). You often put in 80hr workweeks -- at that rate you could have made a boatload of money with a real job or contracting, and instead you put it all in as sweat equity and now the company owns all that unpaid effort, not you. 1. You've lost all the money you may have invested into the company 2. You've lost all the IP you came up with but may now be owned by the company Also, I'd be worried if the startup means so little that you are willing to walk away without disappointment -- because startups go through hard times and you have to be willing to slog through the despair without quitting.
  - dheera 7y ago
    With marriage the initial intention is for life. With a startup, often the intention is to make a dream succeed, and then potentially move on to bigger things, not necessarily stick with it for life.
  - EGreg 7y ago
    This is silly. Most startups funded by these VC types are “go big or go home” and “fail fast” types. All this stuff you said about the company failing is an what the VC pushes you to do 9 out of 10 times and move on. The money lost came from various sources including investors who take risks for a living. How do you say that is worse than kids growing up in a broken home and many lives affected? An entrepeneur can have 5 failures and 8 successful exits. Do you want to say the institution of marriage can be like that?
    - TuringNYC 7y ago
      My comment was that "walking away" every time one has a founder conflict is not without financial consequences. I didn't actually make any comments about marriages being more or less important or impactful than startups.
      - EGreg 7y ago
        Ah I see. I saw your comment in the context of the pg comment being debated: “I'm with pg on this, starting a company with someone is a bigger commitment than getting married”
- navigatesol 7y ago
  >You can leave a company you founded at any any time without any financial repercussions This mentality is the exact wrong one to have, especially if you're "co-founder dating". Unless you're two people hacking away in a dorm room with no customers, making no money (hardly a "business"), there are all kinds of obligations and financial repercussions you might have.
- em-bee 7y ago
  and when you have children, then a permanent separation is impossible unless one partner gives up seeing the children ever again. you are connected for the rest of your lives
codesushi42 7y ago
Getting married to someone you just met on a dating app would probably be a bad idea. It could still work. Arranged marriages aren't much different. Aside from that, there's no issue using a dating app to find that special someone you should marry. Same goes for founder dating. You have to start somewhere. In any case you should try working with your potential cofounder first. A friend isn't necessarily a good cofounder.
- eloff 7y ago
  There are always exceptions. It still makes it a bad idea. And I don't think there's anything wrong with using it to meet like minded people who you might collaborate with one day. But let's not ignore the fact that single founders can be successful too, and one of the biggest causes of startup failure is co-founder disputes, according to YC's own data. The real question is, will it help more than it hurts? The good news is we may know in a few years with this experiment YC is running.
  - codesushi42 7y ago
    Successful single founders are very rare. Agreed that the biggest cause of failure is issues between founders. One could say then that you should only start a company when you have a cofounder, and one that is good. But in reality there's no way of knowing who will be good. The best proxy is choosing someone you have worked with before. A coworker for instance. Simply choosing a founder because you hang out with them is not a good idea. Try moonlighting with your founder dating buddy before making the leap.
    - felipap 7y ago
      Aren't successful founders very rare, "period"?
    - nl 7y ago
      Successful single founders are very rare. It's unclear they are remarkably more rare than other types. The data appears to show that single founders are the second most successful arrangement after pairs. https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/26/co-founders-optional/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/26/co-founders-optional/

by eloff 7y ago

mrep 7y ago

> starting a company with someone is a bigger commitment than getting married How? You can leave a company you founded at any any time without any financial repercussions usually but marriages you cannot unless you get a prenup (which probably costs legal fees) and that's not even including the ring nor wedding.

TuringNYC 7y ago
>>>> starting a company with someone is a bigger commitment than getting married >> How? You can leave a company you founded at any any time without any financial repercussions Absolutely not! Leaving a company has huge financial repercussions! If you have no agreement, you are either killing the company (as everyone disbands) or end up with either no ownership or end up with some uncertain amount of ownership as all the owners fight amongst themselves. If you do have a vesting agreement, you've usually lost everything if you haven't reached your 1st year cliff vest. Either way -- you've lost a lot -- 0. You've "lost" all the work you put in (often at zero or low salary). You often put in 80hr workweeks -- at that rate you could have made a boatload of money with a real job or contracting, and instead you put it all in as sweat equity and now the company owns all that unpaid effort, not you. 1. You've lost all the money you may have invested into the company 2. You've lost all the IP you came up with but may now be owned by the company Also, I'd be worried if the startup means so little that you are willing to walk away without disappointment -- because startups go through hard times and you have to be willing to slog through the despair without quitting.
- dheera 7y ago
  With marriage the initial intention is for life. With a startup, often the intention is to make a dream succeed, and then potentially move on to bigger things, not necessarily stick with it for life.
- EGreg 7y ago
  This is silly. Most startups funded by these VC types are “go big or go home” and “fail fast” types. All this stuff you said about the company failing is an what the VC pushes you to do 9 out of 10 times and move on. The money lost came from various sources including investors who take risks for a living. How do you say that is worse than kids growing up in a broken home and many lives affected? An entrepeneur can have 5 failures and 8 successful exits. Do you want to say the institution of marriage can be like that?
  - TuringNYC 7y ago
    My comment was that "walking away" every time one has a founder conflict is not without financial consequences. I didn't actually make any comments about marriages being more or less important or impactful than startups.
    - EGreg 7y ago
      Ah I see. I saw your comment in the context of the pg comment being debated: “I'm with pg on this, starting a company with someone is a bigger commitment than getting married”
navigatesol 7y ago
>You can leave a company you founded at any any time without any financial repercussions This mentality is the exact wrong one to have, especially if you're "co-founder dating". Unless you're two people hacking away in a dorm room with no customers, making no money (hardly a "business"), there are all kinds of obligations and financial repercussions you might have.
em-bee 7y ago
and when you have children, then a permanent separation is impossible unless one partner gives up seeing the children ever again. you are connected for the rest of your lives

codesushi42 7y ago

Getting married to someone you just met on a dating app would probably be a bad idea. It could still work. Arranged marriages aren't much different. Aside from that, there's no issue using a dating app to find that special someone you should marry. Same goes for founder dating. You have to start somewhere. In any case you should try working with your potential cofounder first. A friend isn't necessarily a good cofounder.

eloff 7y ago
There are always exceptions. It still makes it a bad idea. And I don't think there's anything wrong with using it to meet like minded people who you might collaborate with one day. But let's not ignore the fact that single founders can be successful too, and one of the biggest causes of startup failure is co-founder disputes, according to YC's own data. The real question is, will it help more than it hurts? The good news is we may know in a few years with this experiment YC is running.
- codesushi42 7y ago
  Successful single founders are very rare. Agreed that the biggest cause of failure is issues between founders. One could say then that you should only start a company when you have a cofounder, and one that is good. But in reality there's no way of knowing who will be good. The best proxy is choosing someone you have worked with before. A coworker for instance. Simply choosing a founder because you hang out with them is not a good idea. Try moonlighting with your founder dating buddy before making the leap.
  - felipap 7y ago
    Aren't successful founders very rare, "period"?
  - nl 7y ago
    Successful single founders are very rare. It's unclear they are remarkably more rare than other types. The data appears to show that single founders are the second most successful arrangement after pairs. https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/26/co-founders-optional/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/26/co-founders-optional/