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Posted this in an older Libra hatefest but I'll post it again: Cryptocurrency and blockchain technology have opened up permissionless innovation in an industry

Posted this in an older Libra hatefest but I'll post it again: Cryptocurrency and blockchain technology have opened up permissionless innovation in an industry that has been so choked by regulation that previously only the largest, most well-connected players could get in the door: finance. You can, right this second, create a smart contract that allows extremely sophisticated financial instruments and attract real users. The initial shoots of innovation are already happening, such as MakerDao's Collatorized Debt Positions (CDPs)[0] and Compound Finance for money market crypto instruments.[1] Regulators and governments can stick their fingers in their ears, outlaw the technology, and drive everything offshore or underground. The point is that these technologies are permissionless and unstoppable. As long as the internet exists, you can't eliminate such technology and behavior. Rather than knee-jerk outlaw progress in the industry by projects such as Libra, governments need to let the industry mature and eventually pass laws that protect consumers without stifling innovation. HN users especially need to embrace their so-called "hacker" roots and stop lobbying for the state to crush such innovative technology in its infancy. Seriously - the outrage to blockchain and crypto on HN is entirely absurd. This is cool, interesting technology and entrepreneurs should be analyzing it for its disruptive potential rather than whining that there aren't enough licenses and bureaucrats involved. [0] https://makerdao.com/en/ https://makerdao.com/en/ [1] https://compound.finance/ https://compound.finance/

camjohnson26 7y ago
Personally I think a lot of the hate is because users here knew about the technology early but didn’t invest in any meaningful way. They don’t want to think they made the wrong choice, so they call it a scam or a ponzi scheme to try to justify the decision not to invest. The truth is that crypto is very scammy and that its value run-up in 2018 was a massive bubble, but that doesn’t mean the tech behind that bubble is worthless. Anyone who got rich off of crypto essentially got lucky, but that says nothing about how good that technology is or is not. Crypto can be good technology and a bad investment while still allowing risk takers to make millions.
- seibelj 7y ago
  Also everyone forgets that for every Amazon or Google in 1999 there were 25 pets.com flameouts. Hindsight is always 2020 and game-changers only seem obvious in retrospect.
hash872 7y ago
>The point is that these technologies are permissionless and unstoppable. As long as the internet exists, you can't eliminate such technology and behavior This is the myth that will apparently never die in the crypto community. Yes, the people with badges and guns and court orders absolutely can prevent crypto from being widely adopted if they want to: In the case of Libra, regulators like the Federal Reserve can simply say 'no'. Unless the Libra Association hires a private army that can defeat the world's current best in a standing battle, there's not much they can do about it. In the case of crypto in general, while I agree they probably can't prevent the .1% of the population who are tech savvy enough to manage their own wallets: 1. That's nowhere near enough people to get mass adoption 2. Much more importantly, the Feds can prevent businesses from accepting crypto for payment. If crypto can't be used for payments for legit goods (i.e. not drugs/hitmen), it's useless except as a means of pure financial 'bigger fool' speculation (wait, that's what it is now!) No one who operates a legitimate business is going to risk catching a felony if the US says 'bitcoin is illegal, 3-5 year sentence if you use it', etc. No payments for legit goods = no broader network effect. Instead you simply own the 21st century equivalent of a penny stock. I'm not militantly anti-crypto, but the community is really naive about how much power regulators & law enforcement really has if they want to exercise it. If crypto becomes a 'thing', it will be another highly regulated finance product offered by Huge Company, like Libra. The libertarian (frankly populist) dream is not in contact with reality
ethbro 7y ago
The problems with cryptocurrencies are precisely their lack of laws. Laws link the real world (a thing or action) to an intangible concept (a transaction or a contract). Without a guarantee of that link (ultimately, via force), you're left with joke monopoly money. And if you leverage the existing system to accomplish that link (e.g. via writing legally valid smart contracts), then you're again beholden to governments. People don't use government-backed currency because they have to: they use it because it's useful and reliable.
- seibelj 7y ago
  Before cars there were horses, before computers there was graph paper. The benefits of crypto are so clear that outlawing it makes no sense. I can’t explain this to you because you choose not to understand it so it’s not worth arguing.
  - ethbro 7y ago
    None of your words applied to what I said. You don't have to outlaw cryptocurrency to make it useless: all you have to do is deny its use of existing legal guarantees.
  - ironic_comment 7y ago
    All of you Cryptonites say the same thing... "you choose to not understand...it's not worth arguing" I say, there never has been an issue moving money around. This is purely a solution looking for a problem to solve. Good luck sapping the world's energy supply to enrich the Winklevii.
- sedeki 7y ago
  How does the situation in Zimbabwe or Venezuela fit into your argument? Seriously.
  - ethbro 7y ago
    I'd say that all governments and central banks are not equally competent.

camjohnson26 7y ago

Personally I think a lot of the hate is because users here knew about the technology early but didn’t invest in any meaningful way. They don’t want to think they made the wrong choice, so they call it a scam or a ponzi scheme to try to justify the decision not to invest. The truth is that crypto is very scammy and that its value run-up in 2018 was a massive bubble, but that doesn’t mean the tech behind that bubble is worthless. Anyone who got rich off of crypto essentially got lucky, but that says nothing about how good that technology is or is not. Crypto can be good technology and a bad investment while still allowing risk takers to make millions.

seibelj 7y ago
Also everyone forgets that for every Amazon or Google in 1999 there were 25 pets.com flameouts. Hindsight is always 2020 and game-changers only seem obvious in retrospect.

hash872 7y ago

>The point is that these technologies are permissionless and unstoppable. As long as the internet exists, you can't eliminate such technology and behavior This is the myth that will apparently never die in the crypto community. Yes, the people with badges and guns and court orders absolutely can prevent crypto from being widely adopted if they want to: In the case of Libra, regulators like the Federal Reserve can simply say 'no'. Unless the Libra Association hires a private army that can defeat the world's current best in a standing battle, there's not much they can do about it. In the case of crypto in general, while I agree they probably can't prevent the .1% of the population who are tech savvy enough to manage their own wallets: 1. That's nowhere near enough people to get mass adoption 2. Much more importantly, the Feds can prevent businesses from accepting crypto for payment. If crypto can't be used for payments for legit goods (i.e. not drugs/hitmen), it's useless except as a means of pure financial 'bigger fool' speculation (wait, that's what it is now!) No one who operates a legitimate business is going to risk catching a felony if the US says 'bitcoin is illegal, 3-5 year sentence if you use it', etc. No payments for legit goods = no broader network effect. Instead you simply own the 21st century equivalent of a penny stock. I'm not militantly anti-crypto, but the community is really naive about how much power regulators & law enforcement really has if they want to exercise it. If crypto becomes a 'thing', it will be another highly regulated finance product offered by Huge Company, like Libra. The libertarian (frankly populist) dream is not in contact with reality

ethbro 7y ago

The problems with cryptocurrencies are precisely their lack of laws. Laws link the real world (a thing or action) to an intangible concept (a transaction or a contract). Without a guarantee of that link (ultimately, via force), you're left with joke monopoly money. And if you leverage the existing system to accomplish that link (e.g. via writing legally valid smart contracts), then you're again beholden to governments. People don't use government-backed currency because they have to: they use it because it's useful and reliable.

seibelj 7y ago
Before cars there were horses, before computers there was graph paper. The benefits of crypto are so clear that outlawing it makes no sense. I can’t explain this to you because you choose not to understand it so it’s not worth arguing.
- ethbro 7y ago
  None of your words applied to what I said. You don't have to outlaw cryptocurrency to make it useless: all you have to do is deny its use of existing legal guarantees.
- ironic_comment 7y ago
  All of you Cryptonites say the same thing... "you choose to not understand...it's not worth arguing" I say, there never has been an issue moving money around. This is purely a solution looking for a problem to solve. Good luck sapping the world's energy supply to enrich the Winklevii.
sedeki 7y ago
How does the situation in Zimbabwe or Venezuela fit into your argument? Seriously.
- ethbro 7y ago
  I'd say that all governments and central banks are not equally competent.