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Have you seen the MaNa-AlphaStar games? The bot was restriced in APM (and had lower average APM over the whole game than the human players), but it wasn't restr
by ajuc 7y ago
Have you seen the MaNa-AlphaStar games? The bot was restriced in APM (and had lower average APM over the whole game than the human players), but it wasn't restriced in how many times a second it can move the screen around. And it used APM limit very strategically - for most of the game it had low apm but in fights it had sometimes over 1000 APM :)
It outmicroed MaNa (one of the most micro-focused protoss players) in several games, attacking and winning from positions it shouldn't be possible to do so. In one game it countered MaNa's big immortal-archon army with pure blink stalkers. The general consensus is that immortal-archon is the ultimate counter to stalkers :) The bot was doing perfect blink stalker micro from 3 sides of MaNa army at once over an area that was like 3-screens wide.
It would be physically impossible for a human player to play like this, because moving the screen to blink each stalker as it gets near 0 hitpoints back and forth just can't be done fast enough, with 50 stalkers fighting - but for a bot it's easy.
After these games they limited the alphastar to have limited speed of moving the camera, and that bot lost to MaNa (but it was also trained for less time so it might be not a good comparison), and MaNa strategy was a little cheesy in that game - harrasing with warp prism making the bot move his army back and forth.
Starcraft 2 is as much a strategy game as a mechanical arcade game, different mechanical restrictions change which strategies work well vs which other strategies. The balance of the game is designed with human limitations of micro in mind, so when a bot plays it has to imitate these restrictions, or the game isn't fair.
With perfect micro mass marines beat everything with ridiculous cost-effectiveness.
- bonzini 7y ago> With perfect micro mass marines beat everything with ridiculous cost-effectiveness What has changed in the bots, since the first competitions where having hundreds of zerglings used to beat all the other entries?
- vkou 7y ago> MaNa strategy was a little cheesy in that game - harrasing with warp prism making the bot move his army back and forth. Even from the games where MaNa lost, AlphaStar made incredibly poor big-picture strategic judgements, in terms of where to deploy its forces. It can't seem to smartly deal with harassment.
- methodover 7y ago> Starcraft 2 is as much a strategy game as a mechanical arcade game, different mechanical restrictions change which strategies work well vs which other strategies. This. Show me an alpha star with robotic arms and camera eyes using a mouse and keyboard. Then we’ll be playing the same game. Or, I suppose, give humans a non-physical neural interface.