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"Cofounder dating" is a bad idea. Cofounders should be friends before starting the company. - pg https://twitter.com/paulg/status/852493839176785921 https://t
by ekc 7y ago
"Cofounder dating" is a bad idea. Cofounders should be friends before starting the company.
- pg
https://twitter.com/paulg/status/852493839176785921 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/852493839176785921
- kevin 7y agoStartup School is a good way to start finding a friend with similar interests. You gotta start somewhere. - Kevin (YC Partner / Startup School Instructor/Host)
- davidw 7y agoYou guys have any data? I mean, it seems like a bad idea to me too, but you guys have access to a lot more data than I do.
- matz1 7y agoHow is it a bad idea? To find friend you have to start from somewhere right ? One way maybe from this "dating" site
- davidw 7y agoI don't have first hand experience, but my impression is that the best co-founders are those who you've got some history with, who you know and trust. That doesn't happen overnight. Kind of like an actual dating site might be a good way to meet potential marriage partners, but you'd look at someone pretty weird if you went on a date and they suggested they want to get married right away. But who knows; those guys see a lot of founders, maybe things work out differently.
- matz1 7y agoThe same way you use dating site to make that initial connection for that history to begin with. Dating site doesn't imply anything regarding having to get married right away. Its simply a medium for that initial connection, that's it.
- davidw 7y agoI think most people interested in starting a company have a different time frame in mind than people who are dating. But who knows... I'd be curious to see actual data rather than supposing.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- matz1 7y agoI'm not quite sure what your point is. You said "best co-founders are those who you've got some history with, who you know and trust. That doesn't happen overnight" I agree but then how do you start it in the first place ? Isn't the point of startup school or dating school is to connect people and then from that, over time you can build that history and trust and then use that as consideration whether you want them as your co-founder ?
- davidw 7y agoIs that what YC has observed? My theory is that people are looking for people to start a company with ASAP, rather than 4-5 years in the future after they've worked together for a while. But I could be wrong.
- matz1 7y agoSure there are people like that but the thing is you don't have to. No one is dictating you that you must start a company within certain time frame.
- eloff 7y agoI'm with pg on this, starting a company with someone is a bigger commitment than getting married and without the physical chemistry to help things through tough spots. You'd be crazy to do that with someone you just met. I can't help thinking you'd actually be decreasing your odds of success versus just being a single founder. I'll stay a single founder and I feel that's the right decision for me. I can weather the highs and lows. I remain curious to see if the data will back this up more generally. Long term this could be a good idea to meet people with similar interests, but to partner with for your next startup maybe. Not for now.
- mrep 7y ago> starting a company with someone is a bigger commitment than getting married How? You can leave a company you founded at any any time without any financial repercussions usually but marriages you cannot unless you get a prenup (which probably costs legal fees) and that's not even including the ring nor wedding.
- TuringNYC 7y ago>>>> starting a company with someone is a bigger commitment than getting married >> How? You can leave a company you founded at any any time without any financial repercussions Absolutely not! Leaving a company has huge financial repercussions! If you have no agreement, you are either killing the company (as everyone disbands) or end up with either no ownership or end up with some uncertain amount of ownership as all the owners fight amongst themselves. If you do have a vesting agreement, you've usually lost everything if you haven't reached your 1st year cliff vest. Either way -- you've lost a lot -- 0. You've "lost" all the work you put in (often at zero or low salary). You often put in 80hr workweeks -- at that rate you could have made a boatload of money with a real job or contracting, and instead you put it all in as sweat equity and now the company owns all that unpaid effort, not you. 1. You've lost all the money you may have invested into the company 2. You've lost all the IP you came up with but may now be owned by the company Also, I'd be worried if the startup means so little that you are willing to walk away without disappointment -- because startups go through hard times and you have to be willing to slog through the despair without quitting.
- KirinDave 7y ago"And also we gotta make a living keeping the impression we add value alive and fresh." - Dave, Post-Exist Technical Cofounder, Senior Engineer and Manager Being Honest About Their Opinion Of Kevin's Credibility On This Subject.
- csteubs 7y agoIt might not be as ideal as an organic friendship buI wouldn't say it's a bad idea outright. Only a handful of my friends would call themselves entrepreneurial, and those who do are pretty deep in their own domain-specific startups. My criteria for a cofounder match is 50/50 expertise and personality match, but that slides based on how complementary our skill sets are. Ex: I'm building a new mapping product right now and know very little about image signal processing, but was recently introduced to a CV engineer who blew my mind when we were introduced on LinkedIn. I'm not sure we'd hangout had we not been intro'd, but we get along just fine and her ability to instantly illuminate concepts that had been taking me weeks to grasp is exactly what I need in an early-stage startup cofounder. I think the timing risk of waiting for the "right one" is much greater than finding someone who might not check all of the boxes but meets 90% of what you're looking for. As always, YMMV.
- heavenlyblue 7y agoJust FYI: can't access your website.
- csteubs 7y agoGood looking out!
- arbuge 7y agoMany in SUS haven't started a real company yet...
- jammygit 7y agoIf I build it, who’s in for a online cofounder dungeons and dragons? Meet in the game, change the world!
- em-bee 7y agoDnD and similar games are a great way to get to know someones character. how they act in a game shows how they might act in business. (a game with higher stakes)
- davidivadavid 7y agoRight, so the terminology is not accurate because you're not technically dating your cofounder, but... you still have to start "dating" someone to become cofounders eventually.
- TuringNYC 7y agoDating sounds like a great idea, but I find it difficult to imagine getting to know someone in a small amount of time. I know people who have married after 3 months of knowing each other and it works, and I imagine the same can happen for founders -- but -- who wants to take that chance? The ideal "marriage" whether in relationships or business settings (IMHO) is one where you observe the person before you are tied to them (e.g., before they are on their best behavior due to courtship), and ideally for a longer period of time so you can see how they are in stressed situations. Everyone is usually on their best behavior during dating, so you don't know how people react under real pressure (e.g., when millions of dollars of theoretical paper equity are on the line on some crucial decision, or when interests diverge.)
- davidivadavid 7y agoSure, so it means you should be "dating" for a longer time before you start a company with someone. I'm just not sure I understand the point that's being made here, because it sounds like it's impossible to meet your future cofounder unless you've already done something with them, which is a pretty obvious catch 22.
- TuringNYC 7y agoI cant speak to the GP comment, and I understand the catch 22, however IMHO your history need not be long with them, but I think it is very important that the history is on where you've seen their honesty+integrity+ethic under strained conditions, ideally where they dont know they are being directly evaluated. Imagine your founder and you are sitting on a train and a lady gets off the train leaving behind a huge gold pendant. If you are both together, perhaps he may virtual signal by calling out to the lady. Wow, what a fine gentlemen and citizen. Now imagine he is alone, you're far off in the corner of the train watching him, it is dark, and he doesn't realize he's being watched -- do you think he might keep the pendant or would he still act the same way? Then realize that gold pendants arent found every day, so really you're waiting to see how the person performs when they have hard unselfish decisions to make -- the longer you observe people under independent circumstances that more such events you find and then hopefully you can gauge the person's honesty+integrity+ethic.
- lanrh1836 7y agoI respect PG, but this is just his opinion, not some universal fact.
- burtonator 7y agoPG is right but the next worse bad idea is not having a co-founder. It's definitely possible to do without a co-founder but a LOT harder. I'm doing this right now as a solo co-founder and wish I had someone amazing to have my back.
- mastratton3 7y agoThis is more of an opinion, I'm sure there are plenty of cases where the founders didn't know each other directly but were introduced due to common interests and it worked out just fine (My current company included). Yea, you probably shouldn't jump right into it, but I don't think it is a bad idea. Also - if you're sticking to your current network, I imagine the chances of finding someone who has more complementary skills is lower (ie: I'm an engineer & most of my network is engineers, what I'd really need though is more of a business/sales guy)
- bradam 7y agoAdding an opposite view, Noam Wassermann in his book "The Founder's Dilemmas"[1] concluded after analysing loads of startups that weak links or acquaintances (friends of friends or persons in the same community) are better co-founders. Doing business (especially a high-risk, high-stress startup) with friends can lead to the elephant in the room effect when in the long term the founders focus on preserving their relationship thus avoiding the friction. Side note: the author is a teacher, not a serial entrepreneur where one of Aristotle's quote hold its water: “Those who know, do. Those that understand, teach.” [1] https://www.entrepreneurship.org/learning-paths/founders-dilemmas https://www.entrepreneurship.org/learning-paths/founders-dil...
- em-bee 7y agoan acquaintance of mine went through this experience. started a business with friends. the business went bust, and the friends broke up over it. "make friends through business, but don't make business with friends" was his response. a quote that stuck with me ever since.
- maram 7y agowhile I personally agree with pg here, I think we shouldn’t make any rules. we often forget how many things started...netscape founders (jim clark and marc andreessen) met through an email!
- cjbenedikt 7y agoContradicted by success of Entrepreneur First