3 ms·

I think you're mistaken. There are many other independent sources that talk about its action as an abrasive. You may be the one spreading confusion. Here's one

I think you're mistaken. There are many other independent sources that talk about its action as an abrasive. You may be the one spreading confusion. Here's one of many. This one is from the National Pesticide Information Center which operates out of Oregon State University in partnership with the EPA (OSU has a large focus on agricultural research.) > It can also scratch and damage the exterior of insects. http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/boricgen.html http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/boricgen.html

logfromblammo 7y ago
I'd take a source that has been peer-reviewed by entomologists containing the evidence of independently repeatable measurements. The falsifiable hypothesis is that crystalline boric acid can kill an insect without being ingested, by a purely mechanical action. Sassolite (boric acid) has a Mohs hardness of ONE. Please understand why I might be skeptical of its supposed reputation for killing things by scratching them. Minerals with low Mohs hardness, like graphite, talc, and yes, also boric acid, are used as lubricants.[0] I also question whether those multiple sources in support are truly independent, as I have seen several search results that quote the Wikipedia article verbatim. [0] http://nersp.nerdc.ufl.edu/~wsawyer/boricWear2006.PDF http://nersp.nerdc.ufl.edu/~wsawyer/boricWear2006.PDF
- CriticalCathed 7y ago
  You think the EPA, the University of Oregon, and the National Pesticide Information Center are wrong?
  - joecool1029 7y ago
    Seems likely. Rather, they stated that 'fact' without anything more than anecdotal evidence. This paper investigates a far more likely method of action: http://zero.sci-hub.tw/673/f8d7a6469e96789d8c958eb3c4efdc46/cochran1995.pdf http://zero.sci-hub.tw/673/f8d7a6469e96789d8c958eb3c4efdc46/...
    - CriticalCathed 7y ago
      You're flat wrong. I didn't bother checking the other claims that logfromblammo made before my previous comments, I accepted them at face value, but I did this time; Boric acid has a hardness of 3 not 1 as he claimed. Diatomaceous Earth has a hardness of 1-1.5. [0][1] I looked at the source for the wikipedia claim that logfromblammo described so: "which does not contain anything remotely close to the text added". The source does support the claim in wikipedia. [2] >Pesticide products containing boric acid and its sodium salts are registered in the U.S. for use as insecticides, fungicides and herbicides. As insecticides, some act as stomach poisons in ants, cockroaches, silverfishand termites, while others abrade the exoskeletons of insects. The foundational premise behind his original post "unsourced wikipedia edit mislead other websites" is flat wrong. And on top of that, his reasoning for why boric acid wouldn't be a good abrasive "mohs hardness of 1" is also wrong, and egregiously so when the infamous Diatomaceous Earth that he claims is being mistaken for boric acid has a mohs hardness of 1-1.5! It's an irrelevant argument. My initial diagnosis of logfromblammo being the one who was confused was absolutely correct. Very disappointed in both of you. Hopefully many people weren't mislead by being convinced by logfromblammo as you were. [0] http://www.americanborate.com/all-about-borates/borate-applications/borates-in-pesticides/ http://www.americanborate.com/all-about-borates/borate-appli... -- another source about the abrasive properties + boric acid hardness [1] https://www.tedpella.com/company_html/hardness.htm https://www.tedpella.com/company_html/hardness.htm -- boric acid hardness [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20080406065032/http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/0024fact.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20080406065032/http://www.epa.go... -- the wiki source that was incorrectly identified as not supporting the claim
  - logfromblammo 7y ago
    I think they are referring to pesticides that contain boron, and not specifically to the individual chemical component B(OH)3 (s), a.k.a. solid boric acid. I can easily imagine a commercial pesticide targeted at ants and roaches that contains borates, sugar, and diatomaceous earth, because that is exactly what I use in my own kitchen, made from the individual components. It is effective, and has low toxicity to humans and pets. But to be clear, it is abrasive because the D.E. component is abrasive, not from the boric acid. D.E. is actually the only powdered pesticidal substance I am aware of that kills via mechanical means.

logfromblammo 7y ago

I'd take a source that has been peer-reviewed by entomologists containing the evidence of independently repeatable measurements. The falsifiable hypothesis is that crystalline boric acid can kill an insect without being ingested, by a purely mechanical action. Sassolite (boric acid) has a Mohs hardness of ONE. Please understand why I might be skeptical of its supposed reputation for killing things by scratching them. Minerals with low Mohs hardness, like graphite, talc, and yes, also boric acid, are used as lubricants.[0] I also question whether those multiple sources in support are truly independent, as I have seen several search results that quote the Wikipedia article verbatim. [0] http://nersp.nerdc.ufl.edu/~wsawyer/boricWear2006.PDF http://nersp.nerdc.ufl.edu/~wsawyer/boricWear2006.PDF

CriticalCathed 7y ago
You think the EPA, the University of Oregon, and the National Pesticide Information Center are wrong?
- joecool1029 7y ago
  Seems likely. Rather, they stated that 'fact' without anything more than anecdotal evidence. This paper investigates a far more likely method of action: http://zero.sci-hub.tw/673/f8d7a6469e96789d8c958eb3c4efdc46/cochran1995.pdf http://zero.sci-hub.tw/673/f8d7a6469e96789d8c958eb3c4efdc46/...
  - CriticalCathed 7y ago
    You're flat wrong. I didn't bother checking the other claims that logfromblammo made before my previous comments, I accepted them at face value, but I did this time; Boric acid has a hardness of 3 not 1 as he claimed. Diatomaceous Earth has a hardness of 1-1.5. [0][1] I looked at the source for the wikipedia claim that logfromblammo described so: "which does not contain anything remotely close to the text added". The source does support the claim in wikipedia. [2] >Pesticide products containing boric acid and its sodium salts are registered in the U.S. for use as insecticides, fungicides and herbicides. As insecticides, some act as stomach poisons in ants, cockroaches, silverfishand termites, while others abrade the exoskeletons of insects. The foundational premise behind his original post "unsourced wikipedia edit mislead other websites" is flat wrong. And on top of that, his reasoning for why boric acid wouldn't be a good abrasive "mohs hardness of 1" is also wrong, and egregiously so when the infamous Diatomaceous Earth that he claims is being mistaken for boric acid has a mohs hardness of 1-1.5! It's an irrelevant argument. My initial diagnosis of logfromblammo being the one who was confused was absolutely correct. Very disappointed in both of you. Hopefully many people weren't mislead by being convinced by logfromblammo as you were. [0] http://www.americanborate.com/all-about-borates/borate-applications/borates-in-pesticides/ http://www.americanborate.com/all-about-borates/borate-appli... -- another source about the abrasive properties + boric acid hardness [1] https://www.tedpella.com/company_html/hardness.htm https://www.tedpella.com/company_html/hardness.htm -- boric acid hardness [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20080406065032/http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/0024fact.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20080406065032/http://www.epa.go... -- the wiki source that was incorrectly identified as not supporting the claim
- logfromblammo 7y ago
  I think they are referring to pesticides that contain boron, and not specifically to the individual chemical component B(OH)3 (s), a.k.a. solid boric acid. I can easily imagine a commercial pesticide targeted at ants and roaches that contains borates, sugar, and diatomaceous earth, because that is exactly what I use in my own kitchen, made from the individual components. It is effective, and has low toxicity to humans and pets. But to be clear, it is abrasive because the D.E. component is abrasive, not from the boric acid. D.E. is actually the only powdered pesticidal substance I am aware of that kills via mechanical means.