3 ms·

Technically you can carve a wood log with a piece of sandpaper, but I recommend a chainsaw.

Pfhreak 7y ago
The problem we have is not a wood log. The problem we have is a widely distributed pile of sawdust. If you find a wood log we can cut with a chainsaw, by all means let's do so. I just don't believe it exists.
- sgift 7y ago
  And even if you find one: If you only have sandpaper then sandpaper is still better then looking at the wood log and "sorry, I know this has to be worked on, but I don't have the right tools - and I know I probably won't get them in time either - but I won't do with this bad tool". Sometimes you have to use what you have, even if it sucks.
  - darkpuma 7y ago
    We do have the tools. International economic and military sanctions on regions that refuse to cooperate in cleanup and reform efforts, and international funding for those that do. Other rivers have been cleaned up before, the big 10 polluting rivers can be cleaned up too. This is not a technical problem, it's a political problem. When push comes to shove, our current political regimes seem to have little regard for the environment as a whole. Token gestures only placate people so they don't demand meaningful reform.
    - DocTomoe 7y ago
      > International economic and military sanctions on regions that refuse to cooperate in cleanup and reform efforts Just so I don't misunderstand you: You want to go to war with countries that you consider not green enough?
- AcerbicZero 7y ago
  Here are 10 logs. Let me know if you need help starting the chainsaw. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plastic-tide-10-rivers-contribute-most-of-the-plastic-in-the-oceans/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plas... When 93% of the ocean's plastic waste is coming from 10 riviers, those need to be the focus. That doesn't mean ignore the ~7% coming from elsewhere, because this truly is a problem we all need to solve together.
  - Pfhreak 7y ago
    Read that article again. 93% of the plastic sent into the ocean by rivers comes from just 10 rivers. The article says between 4 and 25% of the ocean's waste comes from rivers. So, yes, there are some big items there. The Yangtze could be 2% - 12% (based on the article's comment that it was roughly half of river trash.) But other rivers are smaller, and we're back into the realm of talking about single integer improvements.
    - darkpuma 7y ago
      Rivers are of particular interest because they represent the primary mechanism by which inland plastic finds it's way into the ocean. Coastal releases of plastic only happen in coastal regions. Granted, most of the world's population lives reasonably close to a coast, but even in those regions the plastic waste is often carried to the ocean by water through smaller waterways, such as rain water carrying plastic litter down storm drains. (Or the waste is left directly on the beach and the next high tide picks it up.) This article goes into the correlation between plastic waste in Asian rivers and Monsoon season: https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15611 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15611 That correlation suggests that a large portion of plastic in Asian rivers is being carried into those rivers by rain water, a similar mechanism to how plastic waste is emitted from coastal regions. Of course there are other mechanisms in play too, such as municipalities deliberately, perhaps illegally, dumping their waste into rivers or off a coast. But a ton of it is coming from ground litter either left directly on the beach or carried to the ocean one way or another by water. Regions with the heaviest rain and the most ground liter are the biggest contributors, as you would logically expect.

The problem we have is not a wood log. The problem we have is a widely distributed pile of sawdust. If you find a wood log we can cut with a chainsaw, by all means let's do so. I just don't believe it exists.

sgift 7y ago
And even if you find one: If you only have sandpaper then sandpaper is still better then looking at the wood log and "sorry, I know this has to be worked on, but I don't have the right tools - and I know I probably won't get them in time either - but I won't do with this bad tool". Sometimes you have to use what you have, even if it sucks.
- darkpuma 7y ago
  We do have the tools. International economic and military sanctions on regions that refuse to cooperate in cleanup and reform efforts, and international funding for those that do. Other rivers have been cleaned up before, the big 10 polluting rivers can be cleaned up too. This is not a technical problem, it's a political problem. When push comes to shove, our current political regimes seem to have little regard for the environment as a whole. Token gestures only placate people so they don't demand meaningful reform.
  - DocTomoe 7y ago
    > International economic and military sanctions on regions that refuse to cooperate in cleanup and reform efforts Just so I don't misunderstand you: You want to go to war with countries that you consider not green enough?
AcerbicZero 7y ago
Here are 10 logs. Let me know if you need help starting the chainsaw. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plastic-tide-10-rivers-contribute-most-of-the-plastic-in-the-oceans/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plas... When 93% of the ocean's plastic waste is coming from 10 riviers, those need to be the focus. That doesn't mean ignore the ~7% coming from elsewhere, because this truly is a problem we all need to solve together.
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  Read that article again. 93% of the plastic sent into the ocean by rivers comes from just 10 rivers. The article says between 4 and 25% of the ocean's waste comes from rivers. So, yes, there are some big items there. The Yangtze could be 2% - 12% (based on the article's comment that it was roughly half of river trash.) But other rivers are smaller, and we're back into the realm of talking about single integer improvements.
  - darkpuma 7y ago
    Rivers are of particular interest because they represent the primary mechanism by which inland plastic finds it's way into the ocean. Coastal releases of plastic only happen in coastal regions. Granted, most of the world's population lives reasonably close to a coast, but even in those regions the plastic waste is often carried to the ocean by water through smaller waterways, such as rain water carrying plastic litter down storm drains. (Or the waste is left directly on the beach and the next high tide picks it up.) This article goes into the correlation between plastic waste in Asian rivers and Monsoon season: https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15611 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15611 That correlation suggests that a large portion of plastic in Asian rivers is being carried into those rivers by rain water, a similar mechanism to how plastic waste is emitted from coastal regions. Of course there are other mechanisms in play too, such as municipalities deliberately, perhaps illegally, dumping their waste into rivers or off a coast. But a ton of it is coming from ground litter either left directly on the beach or carried to the ocean one way or another by water. Regions with the heaviest rain and the most ground liter are the biggest contributors, as you would logically expect.