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Totally fair. It's primarily because of how many cups of coffee are consumed every day, and how few of the existing mobile ordering apps have coffee shops as an

Totally fair. It's primarily because of how many cups of coffee are consumed every day, and how few of the existing mobile ordering apps have coffee shops as an option. The regularity of the purchase and the popularity of the Starbucks app both point to the opportunity for us.

bb88 7y ago
I see it as you're selling to a shrinking market. That, and the market has been moving towards delivery, think grub hub, Amazon. So why should I use your app when I can get my coffee delivered?
- timgriffin77 7y ago
  We certainly keep an eye on delivery apps, but we didn't start gaining traction until we solved for customer expectation issues that owners were worried about. They're primarily concerned with making sure the latte you order is still hot when you get it, and as skeptical as they are about order ahead and pick up, they won't even consider delivery.
  - bb88 7y ago
    I appreciate this, I really do. But that is a problem that could be solved by just adding more Starbucks and Dunkins, who already have their own platform. I travel a lot. And one of the unsung features of the Starbucks app, is that the density of stores and the app means I'm never more than 15 minutes away from a consistent coffee experience. I also did exactly what you were doing back in 2012ish. We even had an app. I thought preordering was going to be the next awesome thing. It turns out that not waiting 5 minutes for your order kinda leaves out the whole experience of talking to the barista, getting that smile at 6am when you're not feeling it yourself, and the personal experience of the hand crafted beverage. My barista knows my name and my order. And you know how often I use the mobile ordering feature of the Starbucks app? Like 3 times, and only when the line was really long. Now if you wanted to create a niche market of curated handcrafted delicious coffee from friendly independent baristas, that's an app I might be more inclined to use.
    - timgriffin77 7y ago
      I completely agree on density, it's the foundation of our pitch really - the more shops that are available on Cloosiv, the better the experience. It's exactly why Starbucks and Dunkin' have such high adoption on their apps. I also like your example about the hand crafted experience, and I agree - in a lot of ways that's desired from the customers that seek out local shops. That said, we've interviewed hundreds of people (customers, random strangers, etc.), and it's clear that they'd go to their local shop more often if this were an option. It doesn't mean that they'll use Cloosiv for every visit, but if we can be there when they don't have a lot of time, that's a win for the coffee shop and the customer.
      - bb88 7y ago
        Hey, so I wanted to do some digging and dig into some questions I had about this space. This is what I found. https://foodtruckempire.com/coffee/fail-rates/ https://foodtruckempire.com/coffee/fail-rates/ These are the #1 and #2 reasons given in the survey that coffee shops fail out of a survey of 232 former coffee shop owners: Unprepared for business ownership – 128 responses No Distinct Brand / Experience – 94 responses So it's clear to me that the "Independent Coffee" sub vertical is struggling. Further I'd worry that "Cloosiv" (and this would be true with "Grubhub") dilutes brands if they're not already strong. The distinct brand / experience goes away when every independent coffee shop has the same app for order ahead that the others do. Instead of the "Stomping Grounds" ordering experience, you get the Cloosiv ordering experience for "Stomping Grounds". With GrubHub, your customer has no personal experience anymore with your store, employees, or brand. Instead, you get a GrubHub employee (hopefully not too grubby) and trust that your customer experience / brand is handled by the delivery person -- something which is completely out of your control. So one way to think of this is that the independent coffee shop market is a scourge to investment opportunities and you should pivot off coffee shops ASAP. Another way to think of this is that the independent coffee market is the right market, but the ordering ahead app is not the solution they need. They need strong branding.
    - Kiro 7y ago
      > It turns out that not waiting 5 minutes for your order kinda leaves out the whole experience of talking to the barista, getting that smile at 6am when you're not feeling it yourself, and the personal experience of the hand crafted beverage. I'm pretty sure you're in minority wanting this though. I absolutely dread getting too personal with my barista, to the point that I start going to another place if they recognize me. If I could choose I would not exchange a single word with them. Even saying what I want is too much.
- wmab 7y ago
  >I see it as you're selling to a shrinking market. I'd respectfully disagree. Food delivery is a huge and growing market but it has also bred a whole new ecosystem of other ways of thinking about on-demand food consumption. There are a bunch of companies that have raised a lot to tackle niches within the industry such as Ritual (lunch pick-up, raised $113M), Allset (order ahead to sit down at a restaurant and pay in-app, raised $8M). Uber Eats just started offering a dine-in option and DoorDash and Postmates also now offer pick-up. These are all value add in cities and dense areas.

bb88 7y ago

I see it as you're selling to a shrinking market. That, and the market has been moving towards delivery, think grub hub, Amazon. So why should I use your app when I can get my coffee delivered?

timgriffin77 7y ago
We certainly keep an eye on delivery apps, but we didn't start gaining traction until we solved for customer expectation issues that owners were worried about. They're primarily concerned with making sure the latte you order is still hot when you get it, and as skeptical as they are about order ahead and pick up, they won't even consider delivery.
- bb88 7y ago
  I appreciate this, I really do. But that is a problem that could be solved by just adding more Starbucks and Dunkins, who already have their own platform. I travel a lot. And one of the unsung features of the Starbucks app, is that the density of stores and the app means I'm never more than 15 minutes away from a consistent coffee experience. I also did exactly what you were doing back in 2012ish. We even had an app. I thought preordering was going to be the next awesome thing. It turns out that not waiting 5 minutes for your order kinda leaves out the whole experience of talking to the barista, getting that smile at 6am when you're not feeling it yourself, and the personal experience of the hand crafted beverage. My barista knows my name and my order. And you know how often I use the mobile ordering feature of the Starbucks app? Like 3 times, and only when the line was really long. Now if you wanted to create a niche market of curated handcrafted delicious coffee from friendly independent baristas, that's an app I might be more inclined to use.
  - timgriffin77 7y ago
    I completely agree on density, it's the foundation of our pitch really - the more shops that are available on Cloosiv, the better the experience. It's exactly why Starbucks and Dunkin' have such high adoption on their apps. I also like your example about the hand crafted experience, and I agree - in a lot of ways that's desired from the customers that seek out local shops. That said, we've interviewed hundreds of people (customers, random strangers, etc.), and it's clear that they'd go to their local shop more often if this were an option. It doesn't mean that they'll use Cloosiv for every visit, but if we can be there when they don't have a lot of time, that's a win for the coffee shop and the customer.
    - bb88 7y ago
      Hey, so I wanted to do some digging and dig into some questions I had about this space. This is what I found. https://foodtruckempire.com/coffee/fail-rates/ https://foodtruckempire.com/coffee/fail-rates/ These are the #1 and #2 reasons given in the survey that coffee shops fail out of a survey of 232 former coffee shop owners: Unprepared for business ownership – 128 responses No Distinct Brand / Experience – 94 responses So it's clear to me that the "Independent Coffee" sub vertical is struggling. Further I'd worry that "Cloosiv" (and this would be true with "Grubhub") dilutes brands if they're not already strong. The distinct brand / experience goes away when every independent coffee shop has the same app for order ahead that the others do. Instead of the "Stomping Grounds" ordering experience, you get the Cloosiv ordering experience for "Stomping Grounds". With GrubHub, your customer has no personal experience anymore with your store, employees, or brand. Instead, you get a GrubHub employee (hopefully not too grubby) and trust that your customer experience / brand is handled by the delivery person -- something which is completely out of your control. So one way to think of this is that the independent coffee shop market is a scourge to investment opportunities and you should pivot off coffee shops ASAP. Another way to think of this is that the independent coffee market is the right market, but the ordering ahead app is not the solution they need. They need strong branding.
  - Kiro 7y ago
    > It turns out that not waiting 5 minutes for your order kinda leaves out the whole experience of talking to the barista, getting that smile at 6am when you're not feeling it yourself, and the personal experience of the hand crafted beverage. I'm pretty sure you're in minority wanting this though. I absolutely dread getting too personal with my barista, to the point that I start going to another place if they recognize me. If I could choose I would not exchange a single word with them. Even saying what I want is too much.
wmab 7y ago
>I see it as you're selling to a shrinking market. I'd respectfully disagree. Food delivery is a huge and growing market but it has also bred a whole new ecosystem of other ways of thinking about on-demand food consumption. There are a bunch of companies that have raised a lot to tackle niches within the industry such as Ritual (lunch pick-up, raised $113M), Allset (order ahead to sit down at a restaurant and pay in-app, raised $8M). Uber Eats just started offering a dine-in option and DoorDash and Postmates also now offer pick-up. These are all value add in cities and dense areas.