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>This is only creepy if you don't understand how the software works. No, its only creepy if you're not sure whether or not conversations had in the "privacy" o

>This is only creepy if you don't understand how the software works. No, its only creepy if you're not sure whether or not conversations had in the "privacy" of your own home are being listened to by a faceless person

RosanaAnaDana 7y ago
I mean. I don't have an always on system in my home. You don't have to use these services.
- behringer 7y ago
  The devices have a mute switch and can be configured to beep when they begin recording. Really this is just a bunch of fear mongering going on.
  - einr 7y ago
    The devices have a mute switch Why would I trust that this does anything at all?
    - fwip 7y ago
      Because you can check. Open it up, see what it does. Use Wireshark to inspect traffic. More importantly, anyone can check, and many people have. Imagine the scoop that "the mute switch does nothing" would be for a tech journalist.
      - einr 7y ago
        Here is a Google Home teardown: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Google+Home+Teardown/72684 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Google+Home+Teardown/72684 You will note that the mute button is not a physical switch that cuts the signal from the microphone, but a soft button. It will probably do what it claims most of the time, but if Google for whatever reason wanted to secretly unmute it remotely, I have no doubt they could. Wireshark? Sure, but what am I even looking for? They could be holding on to recordings in storage to send them later when the device is unmuted again. They could be embedding audio in encrypted form into other innocuous-looking packets -- I doubt a device like this is quiet on the network even when muted. Until all the software is open source and auditable and the switch verifiably breaks the physical signal path to the mic, a device like this can never be trusted.
        behringer 7y ago
        > if Google for whatever reason wanted to secretly unmute it remotely, I have no doubt they could. Many things can happen in a hypothetical future, what does that have to do with today's reality?
      - 50656E6973 7y ago
        >Because you can check. Open it up, see what it does. Use Wireshark to inspect traffic. 99.9% of users are incapable of doing this. >Imagine the scoop that "the mute switch does nothing" would be for a tech journalist. Google has already been caught doing this type of thing with location data: https://techcrunch.com/2018/08/13/google-keeps-a-history-of-your-locations-even-when-location-history-is-off/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/08/13/google-keeps-a-history-of-...
nicky0 7y ago
1) We are not talking about private conversations. We are talking about interactions between the device and its user. 2) Barring some horrible accident or deformity, the person probably has a face.
- RosanaAnaDana 7y ago
  >2) Barring some horrible accident or deformity, the person probably has a face. Spoken like a true ML expert.
d1zzy 7y ago
I thought only samples of audio from speech that is addressed to the Home device (starts with "OK Google...") is sent to humans. That by definition makes it not a conversation in the privacy of your home, it's a conversation with the assistant just like having a phone conversation with someone else in the privacy of your home implies that someone else has access to the conversation.

RosanaAnaDana 7y ago

I mean. I don't have an always on system in my home. You don't have to use these services.

behringer 7y ago
The devices have a mute switch and can be configured to beep when they begin recording. Really this is just a bunch of fear mongering going on.
- einr 7y ago
  The devices have a mute switch Why would I trust that this does anything at all?
  - fwip 7y ago
    Because you can check. Open it up, see what it does. Use Wireshark to inspect traffic. More importantly, anyone can check, and many people have. Imagine the scoop that "the mute switch does nothing" would be for a tech journalist.
    - einr 7y ago
      Here is a Google Home teardown: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Google+Home+Teardown/72684 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Google+Home+Teardown/72684 You will note that the mute button is not a physical switch that cuts the signal from the microphone, but a soft button. It will probably do what it claims most of the time, but if Google for whatever reason wanted to secretly unmute it remotely, I have no doubt they could. Wireshark? Sure, but what am I even looking for? They could be holding on to recordings in storage to send them later when the device is unmuted again. They could be embedding audio in encrypted form into other innocuous-looking packets -- I doubt a device like this is quiet on the network even when muted. Until all the software is open source and auditable and the switch verifiably breaks the physical signal path to the mic, a device like this can never be trusted.
      - behringer 7y ago
        > if Google for whatever reason wanted to secretly unmute it remotely, I have no doubt they could. Many things can happen in a hypothetical future, what does that have to do with today's reality?
    - 50656E6973 7y ago
      >Because you can check. Open it up, see what it does. Use Wireshark to inspect traffic. 99.9% of users are incapable of doing this. >Imagine the scoop that "the mute switch does nothing" would be for a tech journalist. Google has already been caught doing this type of thing with location data: https://techcrunch.com/2018/08/13/google-keeps-a-history-of-your-locations-even-when-location-history-is-off/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/08/13/google-keeps-a-history-of-...

nicky0 7y ago

1) We are not talking about private conversations. We are talking about interactions between the device and its user. 2) Barring some horrible accident or deformity, the person probably has a face.

RosanaAnaDana 7y ago
>2) Barring some horrible accident or deformity, the person probably has a face. Spoken like a true ML expert.

d1zzy 7y ago

I thought only samples of audio from speech that is addressed to the Home device (starts with "OK Google...") is sent to humans. That by definition makes it not a conversation in the privacy of your home, it's a conversation with the assistant just like having a phone conversation with someone else in the privacy of your home implies that someone else has access to the conversation.