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People want an edge, but everyone wants to take the shortest path. Nooptropics, supplements, etc are perceived path shorteners where perhaps no such one exists.

by dpflan 7y ago

People want an edge, but everyone wants to take the shortest path. Nooptropics, supplements, etc are perceived path shorteners where perhaps no such one exists. It seems that the power of the mind (i.e. placebo) is the only real thing here. I would like to see how meditation/mindfulness apps and adoption measure against nootropics. == UPDATE == I did not mean to imply that stimulants like caffeine, amphetamines, etc are placebo. I should have made a clear distinction between such classes of nootropics and those that do not contain such ingredients or those that are proven not to have effect. I agree, the coffee I had this morning was not a placebo for increasing my wakefulness.

aantix 7y ago
Out of the all of the cognitive enhancers that we know of, across all combinations and dosages, it's all placebo?
CodeCube 7y ago
To be fair ... even if it's the placebo effect, couldn't that be argued to be "good enough"? Just like Dumbo's feather, if you feel better then you felt better ;)
- dpflan 7y ago
  It is; and with that perspective the nooptropics/supplements market shows how much value can be placed on that effect.
LeifCarrotson 7y ago
> Nooptropics, supplements, etc are perceived path shorteners where perhaps no such one exists. At least one exists - caffeine. Double-blind studies have proven many times that it improves alertness, which leads to higher scores on many mental performance tests. I find it implausible that no others exist.
- ohaideredevs 7y ago
  "Multiple studies have shown benefits of caffeine in improving endurance. Military studies have shown caffeine increase vigilance in sleep deprived and one study showed improved shot group tightness." "Recommended dosing is 5mg/kg of bodyweight. Dosing of 200-300 mg has also been used. Higher dosing has been associated with side effects that would decrease performance. Serious adverse reactions have been seen at 2,000mg so this quantity of caffeine should be avoided." The military does some cool studies on these. Source is below, but you can find the actual study with charts on how firearm proficiency rises and drops with dose. https://www.benning.army.mil/tenant/75thranger/content/PDF/RANGER%20TOP%2020%20Supplement%20List.pdf https://www.benning.army.mil/tenant/75thranger/content/PDF/R...
  - LeifCarrotson 7y ago
    > one study showed improved shot group tightness I refrained from mentioning caffeine's other reported and studied benefits, as my understanding is they mostly disappear when alertness is compensated for. Shot group tightness, memory performance, response time, critical thinking and many other performance criteria have studies indicating that caffeine improves results, but it's hard to separate the performance enhancement of just being more alert. Maybe people shoot more accurately or memorize cards better with caffeine, or maybe they just weren't quite paying attention when not using caffeine.
syn0byte 7y ago
They exist, WW2 was proof of it. It gave us both Meth(axis) and Cocaine(allies) among other things. It's just that it comes at a very high cost of the users long term health and/or sanity.

by dpflan 7y ago

aantix 7y ago

Out of the all of the cognitive enhancers that we know of, across all combinations and dosages, it's all placebo?

CodeCube 7y ago

To be fair ... even if it's the placebo effect, couldn't that be argued to be "good enough"? Just like Dumbo's feather, if you feel better then you felt better ;)

dpflan 7y ago
It is; and with that perspective the nooptropics/supplements market shows how much value can be placed on that effect.

LeifCarrotson 7y ago

> Nooptropics, supplements, etc are perceived path shorteners where perhaps no such one exists. At least one exists - caffeine. Double-blind studies have proven many times that it improves alertness, which leads to higher scores on many mental performance tests. I find it implausible that no others exist.

ohaideredevs 7y ago
"Multiple studies have shown benefits of caffeine in improving endurance. Military studies have shown caffeine increase vigilance in sleep deprived and one study showed improved shot group tightness." "Recommended dosing is 5mg/kg of bodyweight. Dosing of 200-300 mg has also been used. Higher dosing has been associated with side effects that would decrease performance. Serious adverse reactions have been seen at 2,000mg so this quantity of caffeine should be avoided." The military does some cool studies on these. Source is below, but you can find the actual study with charts on how firearm proficiency rises and drops with dose. https://www.benning.army.mil/tenant/75thranger/content/PDF/RANGER%20TOP%2020%20Supplement%20List.pdf https://www.benning.army.mil/tenant/75thranger/content/PDF/R...
- LeifCarrotson 7y ago
  > one study showed improved shot group tightness I refrained from mentioning caffeine's other reported and studied benefits, as my understanding is they mostly disappear when alertness is compensated for. Shot group tightness, memory performance, response time, critical thinking and many other performance criteria have studies indicating that caffeine improves results, but it's hard to separate the performance enhancement of just being more alert. Maybe people shoot more accurately or memorize cards better with caffeine, or maybe they just weren't quite paying attention when not using caffeine.

syn0byte 7y ago

They exist, WW2 was proof of it. It gave us both Meth(axis) and Cocaine(allies) among other things. It's just that it comes at a very high cost of the users long term health and/or sanity.