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This viewpoint is expressed often but there are many counter arguments. Nutrition is not a solved equation. We simply do not know how exactly various foods aff

This viewpoint is expressed often but there are many counter arguments. Nutrition is not a solved equation. We simply do not know how exactly various foods affect our health, the extent that human genetics and microbiome affect “proper” nutrition for a person, what all the essential nutrients are, what the immunoresponse to various foods are, and any number of unknown unknowns about diet. Any claims to the contrary are irresponsible at best. You mention biodiversity but seem to be glossing over the role of ruminants in the ecological system, and the severe lack of biodiversity which can be the consequence of large scale crop production. These and other reasons lead me to be concerned that this viewpoint is to some degree tainted by ideological blind spots.

darkerside 7y ago
Completely removing meat is not solved. I think we can say with high confidence that Americans in particular eat way too much meat, in way too large of servings, far too often. If you just start having one meal a day without meat, you'll start to feel how odd it is to eat meat 3 times a day like most Americans do.
Vinnl 7y ago
> Nutrition is not a solved equation. We simply do not know how exactly various foods affect our health, the extent that human genetics and microbiome affect “proper” nutrition for a person, what all the essential nutrients are, what the immunoresponse to various foods are, and any number of unknown unknowns about diet. Any claims to the contrary are irresponsible at best. Nevertheless the same applies to the way we changed our diets in relatively recent times, and yet that hasn't stopped us.
trentnix 7y ago
And there's the whole problem of I don't want to and you're going to have to make me.
- deleted 7y ago
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dashundchen 7y ago
> You mention biodiversity but seem to be glossing over the role of ruminants in the ecological system, and the severe lack of biodiversity which can be the consequence of large scale crop production. That is true, but it's very likely the meat you buy was not grazing freely, and instead was stuffed with feed in a feedlot space or sometimes let to graze on a tiny plot to be "grass-fed". This is how the scale of our industrial animal agriculture is met. [0] https://www.splendidtable.org/story/inside-the-factory-farm-where-97-of-us-pigs-are-raised https://www.splendidtable.org/story/inside-the-factory-farm-... > While doing research for his book Pig Tales, author Barry Estabrook visited a farmer in Iowa who raised 150,000 pigs a year. What he saw at this factory farm -- the way 97 percent of pigs in the U.S. are raised -- is a far cry from Old MacDonald's. > "[The pigs] never see the light of day," he says. "They never set foot on anything but a bare, hard floor. They breathe that poisoned air 24/7." [1] https://sentientmedia.org/u-s-farmed-animals-live-on-factory-farms/ https://sentientmedia.org/u-s-farmed-animals-live-on-factory... >According to the latest Sentience Institute analysis, the percent of U.S. farmed animals living on factory farms is… * Broiler chickens (99.9%) live on factory farms * Turkeys (99.8%) live on factory farms * Egg chickens (98.2%) live on factory farms * Pigs (98.3%) live on factory farms * Cows (70.4%) live on factory farms
ace_of_spades 7y ago
My bet is that as soon as there are sensible arguments to counteract your counter arguments, you will come up with new counter arguments. To resolve this cycle let me propose a radical idea: Tell us when you would change your mind! Then we have something to work towards to. What is the level of evidence and rigor that you require until you accept that plant based diets generally have better consequences for all beings involved and should be promoted over „western“ heavy meat based diets?

darkerside 7y ago

Completely removing meat is not solved. I think we can say with high confidence that Americans in particular eat way too much meat, in way too large of servings, far too often. If you just start having one meal a day without meat, you'll start to feel how odd it is to eat meat 3 times a day like most Americans do.

Vinnl 7y ago

> Nutrition is not a solved equation. We simply do not know how exactly various foods affect our health, the extent that human genetics and microbiome affect “proper” nutrition for a person, what all the essential nutrients are, what the immunoresponse to various foods are, and any number of unknown unknowns about diet. Any claims to the contrary are irresponsible at best. Nevertheless the same applies to the way we changed our diets in relatively recent times, and yet that hasn't stopped us.

trentnix 7y ago

And there's the whole problem of I don't want to and you're going to have to make me.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

dashundchen 7y ago

> You mention biodiversity but seem to be glossing over the role of ruminants in the ecological system, and the severe lack of biodiversity which can be the consequence of large scale crop production. That is true, but it's very likely the meat you buy was not grazing freely, and instead was stuffed with feed in a feedlot space or sometimes let to graze on a tiny plot to be "grass-fed". This is how the scale of our industrial animal agriculture is met. [0] https://www.splendidtable.org/story/inside-the-factory-farm-where-97-of-us-pigs-are-raised https://www.splendidtable.org/story/inside-the-factory-farm-... > While doing research for his book Pig Tales, author Barry Estabrook visited a farmer in Iowa who raised 150,000 pigs a year. What he saw at this factory farm -- the way 97 percent of pigs in the U.S. are raised -- is a far cry from Old MacDonald's. > "[The pigs] never see the light of day," he says. "They never set foot on anything but a bare, hard floor. They breathe that poisoned air 24/7." [1] https://sentientmedia.org/u-s-farmed-animals-live-on-factory-farms/ https://sentientmedia.org/u-s-farmed-animals-live-on-factory... >According to the latest Sentience Institute analysis, the percent of U.S. farmed animals living on factory farms is… * Broiler chickens (99.9%) live on factory farms * Turkeys (99.8%) live on factory farms * Egg chickens (98.2%) live on factory farms * Pigs (98.3%) live on factory farms * Cows (70.4%) live on factory farms

ace_of_spades 7y ago

My bet is that as soon as there are sensible arguments to counteract your counter arguments, you will come up with new counter arguments. To resolve this cycle let me propose a radical idea: Tell us when you would change your mind! Then we have something to work towards to. What is the level of evidence and rigor that you require until you accept that plant based diets generally have better consequences for all beings involved and should be promoted over „western“ heavy meat based diets?