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Assuming you adjust your diet instead of just subtracting meat (increase broccoli/beans/lentils/spinach for iron, etc), are there really any downsides? We've h

Assuming you adjust your diet instead of just subtracting meat (increase broccoli/beans/lentils/spinach for iron, etc), are there really any downsides? We've had vegetarians for a thousands of years, and I am not aware of have any health problems that are most efficiently solved by adding meat.

kabouseng 7y ago
Don't eat spinach for iron, spinach is a very poor source of iron...[1] [multiple other sources you can google as well] And vegetarians struggle quite a bit with getting proper dietary nutrition, not just with iron, but also Vitamin B12, Zinc, Omega-3 fatty acids, Vitamin D, Calcium, Protein and Riboflavin. So it is not quite just "simply" adjust your diet you lazy meat eater. [1] https://www.compoundchem.com/2018/07/17/spinach/ https://www.compoundchem.com/2018/07/17/spinach/
- dashundchen 7y ago
  > And vegetarians struggle quite a bit with getting proper dietary nutrition, not just with iron, but also Vitamin B12, Zinc, Omega-3 fatty acids, Vitamin D, Calcium, Protein and Riboflavin. So it is not quite just "simply" adjust your diet you lazy meat eater. All of those listed able to be met easily by plant based sources with a well balanced diet. And it's not like the average meat American is eating a healthy diet. I would be shocked if the standard American diet actually met all recommended nutritional intakes. B12 is only in significant amounts of meat because it is heavily supplemented and present in the soil, today's clean produce strips most of those bacteria from the food supply.
  - mcv 7y ago
    B12 is the one I know a number of vegetarians have trouble getting from plant based sources. I've had trouble with it ages ago, and a friend of mine has been told by his doctor that he has to eat meat because of this. The solution is really simple, though: eat less meat. We don't need meat every day. Once or twice a week is more than enough, and if everybody did that, it would greatly reduce this problem.
    - the_gastropod 7y ago
      A doctor suggested eating meat to resolve a B12 deficiency? I find that strange. Low B12 is common among meat-eaters and vegetarians alike. It's a bacteria-byproduct and easily supplementable.
      - mcv 7y ago
        This is the first time I've heard that. I know a number of vegetarians who specifically had b12 deficiency, and every single time, the answer was that we could only get b12 from animal products. One of them gets b12 supplements aware that it's the only animal product she consumes. I checked Wikipedia though, and it agrees with you, which makes me wonder even more why I've heard this exact same experience from several unconnected vegetarians.
    - mkbkn 7y ago
      Fermented foods like Idli can get you enough Vit B12. No need to eat meat.
    - jogjayr 7y ago
      Your friend couldn't take a B12 supplement?
      - mcv 7y ago
        Apparently not. I don't know his medical details, though. Although I do wonder, if we're wrong about B12 only coming from animals, is it possible that we, or possible even Dutch physicians, are under-informed about our options?
- mkbkn 7y ago
  > And vegetarians struggle quite a bit with getting proper dietary nutrition, not just with iron, but also Vitamin B12, Zinc, Omega-3 fatty acids, Vitamin D, Calcium, Protein and Riboflavin. So it is not quite just "simply" adjust your diet you lazy meat eater. I'm a vegetarian (yes, not a vegan yet) living in India and I'm not deficient in any of these. Also, never have been. e.g. take the case of protein, I eat pulses almost daily (and a variety of) with rice, never felt I have less protein than required. Vit B12 - you can get from fermented foods like Idli etc. Also, from the water soaked overnight in rice (actually rice is soaked in water). Vegetarianism had been practised in India since time immemorial. One can say the food has been perfected here to stay healthy.
- asdff 7y ago
  Time for a multivitamin?
52-6F-62 7y ago
I always have to pipe in here. I’m probably in a smaller contingent but I’m a male with a B12 and Iron deficiency and the most effective solution has been to eat more red meat (according to my doctor) while taking a daily sublingual methylcobalamin. Even with the supplement if I go too long without making sure I eat some red meat I start noticing the old side effects return. If I don’t I literally lose red blood cells and they’re not replenished. Not so good. It runs in my family. My poor mother is so bad that she has had to have a couple of blood transfusions because nothing else would bring her back from a bad state when she got there (the alternative being just lie down and die). Supplementation hasn’t helped her many times†. They also rarely eat red meat. Here’s hoping I or my sister don’t end up the same way. My sister has already devolved to anemic and has had her own complications with that. † edit: Rereading this it sounds confusing. I meant that supplementation has not helped her either prevent or recover from those cases until after the transfusion where her doctor stressed diet.
naasking 7y ago
> are there really any downsides? We've had vegetarians for a thousands of years Vegetarians are self-selected. We can have reasonably high confidence it would be fine, but we can't be sure, and some people literally will not be able to tolerate it. > I am not aware of have any health problems that are most efficiently solved by adding meat. Depends how you define "efficient". There are plenty of nutrients that are most concentrated in meat, such that small portions of meat can replace the need to consume large portions of plant matter.

kabouseng 7y ago

Don't eat spinach for iron, spinach is a very poor source of iron...[1] [multiple other sources you can google as well] And vegetarians struggle quite a bit with getting proper dietary nutrition, not just with iron, but also Vitamin B12, Zinc, Omega-3 fatty acids, Vitamin D, Calcium, Protein and Riboflavin. So it is not quite just "simply" adjust your diet you lazy meat eater. [1] https://www.compoundchem.com/2018/07/17/spinach/ https://www.compoundchem.com/2018/07/17/spinach/

dashundchen 7y ago
> And vegetarians struggle quite a bit with getting proper dietary nutrition, not just with iron, but also Vitamin B12, Zinc, Omega-3 fatty acids, Vitamin D, Calcium, Protein and Riboflavin. So it is not quite just "simply" adjust your diet you lazy meat eater. All of those listed able to be met easily by plant based sources with a well balanced diet. And it's not like the average meat American is eating a healthy diet. I would be shocked if the standard American diet actually met all recommended nutritional intakes. B12 is only in significant amounts of meat because it is heavily supplemented and present in the soil, today's clean produce strips most of those bacteria from the food supply.
- mcv 7y ago
  B12 is the one I know a number of vegetarians have trouble getting from plant based sources. I've had trouble with it ages ago, and a friend of mine has been told by his doctor that he has to eat meat because of this. The solution is really simple, though: eat less meat. We don't need meat every day. Once or twice a week is more than enough, and if everybody did that, it would greatly reduce this problem.
  - the_gastropod 7y ago
    A doctor suggested eating meat to resolve a B12 deficiency? I find that strange. Low B12 is common among meat-eaters and vegetarians alike. It's a bacteria-byproduct and easily supplementable.
    - mcv 7y ago
      This is the first time I've heard that. I know a number of vegetarians who specifically had b12 deficiency, and every single time, the answer was that we could only get b12 from animal products. One of them gets b12 supplements aware that it's the only animal product she consumes. I checked Wikipedia though, and it agrees with you, which makes me wonder even more why I've heard this exact same experience from several unconnected vegetarians.
  - mkbkn 7y ago
    Fermented foods like Idli can get you enough Vit B12. No need to eat meat.
  - jogjayr 7y ago
    Your friend couldn't take a B12 supplement?
    - mcv 7y ago
      Apparently not. I don't know his medical details, though. Although I do wonder, if we're wrong about B12 only coming from animals, is it possible that we, or possible even Dutch physicians, are under-informed about our options?
mkbkn 7y ago
> And vegetarians struggle quite a bit with getting proper dietary nutrition, not just with iron, but also Vitamin B12, Zinc, Omega-3 fatty acids, Vitamin D, Calcium, Protein and Riboflavin. So it is not quite just "simply" adjust your diet you lazy meat eater. I'm a vegetarian (yes, not a vegan yet) living in India and I'm not deficient in any of these. Also, never have been. e.g. take the case of protein, I eat pulses almost daily (and a variety of) with rice, never felt I have less protein than required. Vit B12 - you can get from fermented foods like Idli etc. Also, from the water soaked overnight in rice (actually rice is soaked in water). Vegetarianism had been practised in India since time immemorial. One can say the food has been perfected here to stay healthy.
asdff 7y ago
Time for a multivitamin?

52-6F-62 7y ago

I always have to pipe in here. I’m probably in a smaller contingent but I’m a male with a B12 and Iron deficiency and the most effective solution has been to eat more red meat (according to my doctor) while taking a daily sublingual methylcobalamin. Even with the supplement if I go too long without making sure I eat some red meat I start noticing the old side effects return. If I don’t I literally lose red blood cells and they’re not replenished. Not so good. It runs in my family. My poor mother is so bad that she has had to have a couple of blood transfusions because nothing else would bring her back from a bad state when she got there (the alternative being just lie down and die). Supplementation hasn’t helped her many times†. They also rarely eat red meat. Here’s hoping I or my sister don’t end up the same way. My sister has already devolved to anemic and has had her own complications with that. † edit: Rereading this it sounds confusing. I meant that supplementation has not helped her either prevent or recover from those cases until after the transfusion where her doctor stressed diet.

naasking 7y ago

> are there really any downsides? We've had vegetarians for a thousands of years Vegetarians are self-selected. We can have reasonably high confidence it would be fine, but we can't be sure, and some people literally will not be able to tolerate it. > I am not aware of have any health problems that are most efficiently solved by adding meat. Depends how you define "efficient". There are plenty of nutrients that are most concentrated in meat, such that small portions of meat can replace the need to consume large portions of plant matter.