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This was a revelation. ...Even so, 85 to 90 percent of toxic vehicle emissions in traffic come from tire wear and other non-tailpipe sources,... So electric c

by achow 7y ago

This was a revelation. ...Even so, 85 to 90 percent of toxic vehicle emissions in traffic come from tire wear and other non-tailpipe sources,... So electric cars will mitigate only 10-15% of the environmental problems of the ICE cars?

Tade0 7y ago
Yes and no. These sources generate rather large particles (PM10) which, as opposed to PM2.5, don't get to the bloodstream through the lungs.
- achow 7y ago
  From the research paper cited by the article: PM2.5 emissions were only 1-3% lower for EVs compared to modern ICEVs. Therefore, it could be concluded that the increased popularity of electric vehicles will likely not have a great effect on PM levels. Non-exhaust emissions already account for over 90% of PM10 and 85% of PM2.5 emissions from traffic. These proportions will continue to increase as exhaust standards improve and average vehicle weight increases. Future policy should consequently focus on setting standards for non-exhaust emissions and encouraging weight reduction of all vehicles to significantly reduce PM emissions from traffic. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/297889793_Non-exhaust_PM_emissions_from_electric_vehicles https://www.researchgate.net/publication/297889793_Non-exhau...
  - Tade0 7y ago
    Here's what I find suspicious about this study: resuspension being counted as an emission. It's said that cars "produce" PMs this way even though they don't per se. What I'm getting at is that if we reduced the amount of particulates added to the system, then surely there would be less to resuspend? Unless there's some other, non-car related source of these. If so, why not address it instead?
mytailorisrich 7y ago
This is misleading. If you follow the link to the actual research paper you find that it's 90% of PM10 and 85% of PM2.5 That is, not "emissions" in general but particle matter specifically. This makes sense because modern cars have efficient engines and particle filters so that few particles are emitted from the combustion engine itself. The remaining sources are the tyres and the brakes.
- achow 7y ago
  Yes. But doesn't the point still stays that contrary to the popular belief electric cars would not bring about much change? Research paper: ..it could be concluded that the increased popularity of electric vehicles will likely not have a great effect on PM levels.
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    Electric vehicles will bring about significant changes. As said, and as your quote highlights, this focusses on particles. But the main emission of internal combustion engines is CO2, and other nasty stuff like CO, NOx, hydrocarbons, etc. These are eliminated by electric vehicles.
    - sokoloff 7y ago
      They are moved by electric vehicles to some remote place (where they might also be more efficiently handled), but even as an electric car driver, I don’t think of them as eliminated.
      - mytailorisrich 7y ago
        They are eliminated and electricity production does not have to produce any of them: The short term goal is total elimination across the whole chain.
        gavia1 7y ago

by achow 7y ago

Tade0 7y ago

Yes and no. These sources generate rather large particles (PM10) which, as opposed to PM2.5, don't get to the bloodstream through the lungs.

achow 7y ago
From the research paper cited by the article: PM2.5 emissions were only 1-3% lower for EVs compared to modern ICEVs. Therefore, it could be concluded that the increased popularity of electric vehicles will likely not have a great effect on PM levels. Non-exhaust emissions already account for over 90% of PM10 and 85% of PM2.5 emissions from traffic. These proportions will continue to increase as exhaust standards improve and average vehicle weight increases. Future policy should consequently focus on setting standards for non-exhaust emissions and encouraging weight reduction of all vehicles to significantly reduce PM emissions from traffic. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/297889793_Non-exhaust_PM_emissions_from_electric_vehicles https://www.researchgate.net/publication/297889793_Non-exhau...
- Tade0 7y ago
  Here's what I find suspicious about this study: resuspension being counted as an emission. It's said that cars "produce" PMs this way even though they don't per se. What I'm getting at is that if we reduced the amount of particulates added to the system, then surely there would be less to resuspend? Unless there's some other, non-car related source of these. If so, why not address it instead?

mytailorisrich 7y ago

This is misleading. If you follow the link to the actual research paper you find that it's 90% of PM10 and 85% of PM2.5 That is, not "emissions" in general but particle matter specifically. This makes sense because modern cars have efficient engines and particle filters so that few particles are emitted from the combustion engine itself. The remaining sources are the tyres and the brakes.

achow 7y ago
Yes. But doesn't the point still stays that contrary to the popular belief electric cars would not bring about much change? Research paper: ..it could be concluded that the increased popularity of electric vehicles will likely not have a great effect on PM levels.
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  Electric vehicles will bring about significant changes. As said, and as your quote highlights, this focusses on particles. But the main emission of internal combustion engines is CO2, and other nasty stuff like CO, NOx, hydrocarbons, etc. These are eliminated by electric vehicles.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    They are moved by electric vehicles to some remote place (where they might also be more efficiently handled), but even as an electric car driver, I don’t think of them as eliminated.
    - mytailorisrich 7y ago
      They are eliminated and electricity production does not have to produce any of them: The short term goal is total elimination across the whole chain.
      - gavia1 7y ago