5 ms·

That "simple" fix won't solve the problem where G2A makes bundle economics completely unsustainable for indie games.

mindslight 7y ago
Why does the business model of bundling invalidate the business model of reselling keys? There is a thriving business of people buying up Dewalt cordless tool combos (at a deep discount, especially when they're on sale), and then parting them out on eBay. Should Dewalt be able to prevent this by enclosing some faux contract alongside their tool bundles? We should be moving towards a world where a "key" has properties more akin to a physical item, rather than less.
- eridius 7y ago
  Because the business model of reselling keys is built entirely upon a combination of fencing stolen goods and encouraging people to violate the terms of service of the stores they're buying keys from. There's no legitimate market here, and thus no business model worth protecting. Remember, we're not talking about the equivalent of selling used digital games. Once someone redeems a code, they can't resell it.
  - mindslight 7y ago
    Yes exactly. We're not even talking about the equivalent of selling used digital games, but rather the equivalent of reselling new in box merchandise. You didn't address the core of my argument, which is why should "terms of service" be able to carry post-transaction restrictions meant purely to implement a tenuous business method?
    - eridius 7y ago
      A digital key is not the equivalent of "new in box merchandise". A digital key is a technical means by which to add a purchased item to your digital library. The ideal behavior is to not have a key at all but rather, once you purchase the item, to just have be added to your library automatically. That's the model that digital purchases are working towards. Physical merchandise exists before you purchase it. It costs money to produce, any unsold units are a negative for the company, there's a high overhead to buying a physical item in e.g. China and bringing it to the U.S., it's difficult for individuals to deal with large bulk amounts of physical items, and actually selling the items also involves physically transporting it to the buyer. All of this means it's rather difficult to do something like buy 1000 physical copies of a game in China for cheap and resell them to buyers in the U.S., or even to just buy 1000 physical copies of a game using stolen credit cards and then resell them. Digital keys on the other hand are ephemeral, they don't exist until you buy the product and they stop existing the moment you redeem it. The key is just to facilitate the process of going from purchase to having the game in your library. In some cases the keys are indeed separate entities you're allowed to resell (I'm thinking like you kickstart a game at a tier that gets you multiple digital copies, so they just send you several keys you can do whatever you want with), but that's not really the standard model. And yes, if you buy a game from a store and they give you a key, normally you are allowed to resell it, but there's usually limitations, such as games bought in China are supposed to be redeemed in China. And there are plenty of key sources, such as bundles, where you're not allowed to resell it at all, there's just no technical means of enforcing this (largely because services like Steam have no incentive to provide a technical means of limiting this; Steam doesn't care where you got the key, just that you put it in your library and thus increase usage of Steam).

Why does the business model of bundling invalidate the business model of reselling keys? There is a thriving business of people buying up Dewalt cordless tool combos (at a deep discount, especially when they're on sale), and then parting them out on eBay. Should Dewalt be able to prevent this by enclosing some faux contract alongside their tool bundles? We should be moving towards a world where a "key" has properties more akin to a physical item, rather than less.

eridius 7y ago
Because the business model of reselling keys is built entirely upon a combination of fencing stolen goods and encouraging people to violate the terms of service of the stores they're buying keys from. There's no legitimate market here, and thus no business model worth protecting. Remember, we're not talking about the equivalent of selling used digital games. Once someone redeems a code, they can't resell it.
- mindslight 7y ago
  Yes exactly. We're not even talking about the equivalent of selling used digital games, but rather the equivalent of reselling new in box merchandise. You didn't address the core of my argument, which is why should "terms of service" be able to carry post-transaction restrictions meant purely to implement a tenuous business method?
  - eridius 7y ago
    A digital key is not the equivalent of "new in box merchandise". A digital key is a technical means by which to add a purchased item to your digital library. The ideal behavior is to not have a key at all but rather, once you purchase the item, to just have be added to your library automatically. That's the model that digital purchases are working towards. Physical merchandise exists before you purchase it. It costs money to produce, any unsold units are a negative for the company, there's a high overhead to buying a physical item in e.g. China and bringing it to the U.S., it's difficult for individuals to deal with large bulk amounts of physical items, and actually selling the items also involves physically transporting it to the buyer. All of this means it's rather difficult to do something like buy 1000 physical copies of a game in China for cheap and resell them to buyers in the U.S., or even to just buy 1000 physical copies of a game using stolen credit cards and then resell them. Digital keys on the other hand are ephemeral, they don't exist until you buy the product and they stop existing the moment you redeem it. The key is just to facilitate the process of going from purchase to having the game in your library. In some cases the keys are indeed separate entities you're allowed to resell (I'm thinking like you kickstart a game at a tier that gets you multiple digital copies, so they just send you several keys you can do whatever you want with), but that's not really the standard model. And yes, if you buy a game from a store and they give you a key, normally you are allowed to resell it, but there's usually limitations, such as games bought in China are supposed to be redeemed in China. And there are plenty of key sources, such as bundles, where you're not allowed to resell it at all, there's just no technical means of enforcing this (largely because services like Steam have no incentive to provide a technical means of limiting this; Steam doesn't care where you got the key, just that you put it in your library and thus increase usage of Steam).