5 ms·

I do not understand how people involved are still alive. Californium-252 is one of the most efficient neutron sources available; it is really hard to protect ag

I do not understand how people involved are still alive. Californium-252 is one of the most efficient neutron sources available; it is really hard to protect against neutron radiation, and it will activate all materials nearby. Keeping 18g of californium "in the car" is a certain death sentence (and will require hazmat cleanup of epic proportions). Here's how a container suitable for safe transportation of _one_ gram of californium looks like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Californium#/media/File:CfShield.JPG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Californium#/media/File:CfShie...

RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago
That amount seems suspicious to me too, as does the fact that it was being transported in just a bag. I wonder if it will turn out like the previous large bust that is mentioned in the article. >In March 2018, police in Ankara seized a whopping 1.4 kilograms (3.1 pounds) of a substance, believed to be Californium, in a car following a tipoff. That time, however, the substance turned out to be organic with no nuclear or radioactive properties.
dmurray 7y ago
That's for 1 gram of Cf-252. Cf-251 is about 400 times more stable according to that Wikipedia page. It's still out of the question that anyone is driving round with 18 grams of any isotope of it, much less 1.4 kg. The documented world production is less than 0.5g per year.
ggm 7y ago
Thats safe transportation for avoidance of accidents. If I was smuggling this stuff, I'd use a mule, and I'd pick one who had no consciousness of how dangerous the materials were, and I'd avoid contact with them directly. I probably wouldn't care about the crash risk: if the cleanup crew is decontaminating a border crossing down south, I can get through up north with the other 1g. Also, if the mule dies more than 72hrs later, I don't have to bother disposing of the mule. If you publish the airport thriller, I declare my interest (c)
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  Someone showing up at a hospital with massive radiation injuries is going to raise some red flags.
- dboreham 7y ago
  Ok, I see now that this isn't the four legged furry big eared kind...
- seandougall 7y ago
  Even if you figure the mule is expendable, you'd at least want the car to make it across reliably with the payload. I don't have a lot of experience in this area, but doesn't it seem a bit implausible that the car's electronics would work normally with that much radiation coming from the steering column?
  - DuskStar 7y ago
    It's not that much radiation. And if it's an older car, 100nm+ processes don't care quite so much about radiation as modern 10nm-class ones do.
- atemerev 7y ago
  I do not have the biosafety data for neutron radiation nearby (there are some nice calculators for beta and gamma emitters online), but I strongly suspect that 18g of californium lie somewhere in between of "instant death" and "certain death in a few hours" (closer to the "instant death"). Anyway, it is also an alpha emitter, so the entire scenario is impossible -- it would be white hot in such amounts. Regarding that airport thriller -- you can't bring any nuclear materials (particularly neutron emitters) through any major airport, they are all equipped with radiation detectors and neutron detectors, specifically to prevent that. I do know a thing or two about nuclear forensics; unfortunately, I do not have any talent for writing fiction, so this thriller is not coming anytime soon. :)
brokenmachine 7y ago
You are right, it sounds ridiculous. Also as others have posted, the documented worldwide yearly production of the stuff is only 0.5g.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago

That amount seems suspicious to me too, as does the fact that it was being transported in just a bag. I wonder if it will turn out like the previous large bust that is mentioned in the article. >In March 2018, police in Ankara seized a whopping 1.4 kilograms (3.1 pounds) of a substance, believed to be Californium, in a car following a tipoff. That time, however, the substance turned out to be organic with no nuclear or radioactive properties.

dmurray 7y ago

That's for 1 gram of Cf-252. Cf-251 is about 400 times more stable according to that Wikipedia page. It's still out of the question that anyone is driving round with 18 grams of any isotope of it, much less 1.4 kg. The documented world production is less than 0.5g per year.

ggm 7y ago

Thats safe transportation for avoidance of accidents. If I was smuggling this stuff, I'd use a mule, and I'd pick one who had no consciousness of how dangerous the materials were, and I'd avoid contact with them directly. I probably wouldn't care about the crash risk: if the cleanup crew is decontaminating a border crossing down south, I can get through up north with the other 1g. Also, if the mule dies more than 72hrs later, I don't have to bother disposing of the mule. If you publish the airport thriller, I declare my interest (c)

ceejayoz 7y ago
Someone showing up at a hospital with massive radiation injuries is going to raise some red flags.
dboreham 7y ago
Ok, I see now that this isn't the four legged furry big eared kind...
seandougall 7y ago
Even if you figure the mule is expendable, you'd at least want the car to make it across reliably with the payload. I don't have a lot of experience in this area, but doesn't it seem a bit implausible that the car's electronics would work normally with that much radiation coming from the steering column?
- DuskStar 7y ago
  It's not that much radiation. And if it's an older car, 100nm+ processes don't care quite so much about radiation as modern 10nm-class ones do.
atemerev 7y ago
I do not have the biosafety data for neutron radiation nearby (there are some nice calculators for beta and gamma emitters online), but I strongly suspect that 18g of californium lie somewhere in between of "instant death" and "certain death in a few hours" (closer to the "instant death"). Anyway, it is also an alpha emitter, so the entire scenario is impossible -- it would be white hot in such amounts. Regarding that airport thriller -- you can't bring any nuclear materials (particularly neutron emitters) through any major airport, they are all equipped with radiation detectors and neutron detectors, specifically to prevent that. I do know a thing or two about nuclear forensics; unfortunately, I do not have any talent for writing fiction, so this thriller is not coming anytime soon. :)

brokenmachine 7y ago

You are right, it sounds ridiculous. Also as others have posted, the documented worldwide yearly production of the stuff is only 0.5g.