5 ms·

Was this before or after North Korea, with an economy around the size of Botswana or Afghanistan, assembled a nuclear arsenal?

th0ma5 7y ago
What arsenal? I was thinking they blew up all the devices that were ever made, never demonstrated a portable device, and also destroyed all their facilities in the course of the doing this.
- jhayward 7y ago
  US and S. Korean officials estimate that North Korea has about 60 nuclear weapons, and can manufacture about 6 per year at present.
  - jacobush 7y ago
    US officials also estimated there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    - BalinKing 7y ago
      It was only declassified in 2015, but WMDs were discovered in Iraq circa 2005 by Operations Avarice: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#2005:_Operation_Avarice https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_des.... There are counterarguments against the validity of Operation Avarice’s discoveries in justifying the Iraq War, although I admittedly don’t know much about the topic.
      - th0ma5 7y ago
        I feel like people selling left over devices from the Iran-Iraq war was reported in the media well before 2015.
        tzakrajs 7y ago
        Right, it's like oh Reagan gave them "WMDs" in the 80s, so we know they have "WMDs".
        BalinKing 7y ago
        I hadn’t noticed they were from the Iran-Iraq war, thank you for pointing that out.
    - ggm 7y ago
      TBF there had been a programme. It was defunct, and the evidence of continuance was weak, and it was a totally manufactured crisis, but they had been on the hunt. In no way does this justify the war, and subsequent events.
      - ndarwincorn 7y ago
        > evidence of continuance was weak That's a funny way of saying that we had interviews from the general that ordered the destruction of the program that all WMD had been destroyed after the Iran-Iraq war.[1] I'd add that counter-evidence of continuance was strong if you're going to include that at all. [1] http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9509/iraq_defector/kamel_transcript/index.html http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9509/iraq_defector/kamel_transcript...
        gpm 7y ago
        I'm not sure why you would consider a interview with an Iraqi General strong evidence. Either way while I agree that the US claims were fabricated, he was also demonstrably incorrect in claiming that there were none https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middlee...
  - sjg007 7y ago
    Except North Korea blew up their mountain base housing them.
    - jhayward 7y ago
      No, it didn't. They don't store their nukes in the test tunnels.
SEJeff 7y ago
*with the help of Pakistan
mises 7y ago
In fairness to him, North Korea's nukes are not that much better than dirty bombs and aren't super high-yield. N. Korea also has total control of the economy because it is communist, so can starve her citizens to fund bomb construction. That said, your point is good. Does any one have a real idea to denuclearize rogue nations (N. Korea, Iran, Pakistan, etc.)? All I've seen is both the Trump and Obama administrations saying very nicely "please, please denuclearize" and imposing sanctions. Problem being, bad nations don't care about their citizens. Could some one please propose a method to force denuclearization by an unwilling nation? Or at least prevent them getting more?
- Symmetry 7y ago
  In 2006 North Korea had a nuke little better than a dirty bomb. These days, in 2019, they've got a 250 kt thermonuclear bomb. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_and_weapons_of_mas...
  - th0ma5 7y ago
    Arguably had a 250kt device, judging by seismic data, although they may have killed a lot of people involved by detonating it? I'm just going by what is in the linked articles from Wikipedia, although the Wikipedia articles themselves don't mention it as it hasn't been independently announced as such by any non media organization.
- asadlionpk 7y ago
  How is Pakistan a rogue nation?
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    there is an official definition of "rogue state" but it's an inherently political term, hard to have an unbiased discussion over who is and is not a rogue state. pakistan does present a bit of a problem for the rest of the world. they have over a hundred nukes and a very tense relationship with their neighbor, india. it's somewhat unstable and ISI has had some questionable (to say the least) dealings with terrorist groups. definitely not a combination that makes other countries very comfortable.
dontbenebby 7y ago
It's not the size of your economy, it's how you use it. (North Korea spends ~22% of their GDP on their military.)

th0ma5 7y ago

What arsenal? I was thinking they blew up all the devices that were ever made, never demonstrated a portable device, and also destroyed all their facilities in the course of the doing this.

jhayward 7y ago
US and S. Korean officials estimate that North Korea has about 60 nuclear weapons, and can manufacture about 6 per year at present.
- jacobush 7y ago
  US officials also estimated there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
  - BalinKing 7y ago
    It was only declassified in 2015, but WMDs were discovered in Iraq circa 2005 by Operations Avarice: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#2005:_Operation_Avarice https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_des.... There are counterarguments against the validity of Operation Avarice’s discoveries in justifying the Iraq War, although I admittedly don’t know much about the topic.
    - th0ma5 7y ago
      I feel like people selling left over devices from the Iran-Iraq war was reported in the media well before 2015.
      - tzakrajs 7y ago
        Right, it's like oh Reagan gave them "WMDs" in the 80s, so we know they have "WMDs".
      - BalinKing 7y ago
        I hadn’t noticed they were from the Iran-Iraq war, thank you for pointing that out.
  - ggm 7y ago
    TBF there had been a programme. It was defunct, and the evidence of continuance was weak, and it was a totally manufactured crisis, but they had been on the hunt. In no way does this justify the war, and subsequent events.
    - ndarwincorn 7y ago
      > evidence of continuance was weak That's a funny way of saying that we had interviews from the general that ordered the destruction of the program that all WMD had been destroyed after the Iran-Iraq war.[1] I'd add that counter-evidence of continuance was strong if you're going to include that at all. [1] http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9509/iraq_defector/kamel_transcript/index.html http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9509/iraq_defector/kamel_transcript...
      - gpm 7y ago
        I'm not sure why you would consider a interview with an Iraqi General strong evidence. Either way while I agree that the US claims were fabricated, he was also demonstrably incorrect in claiming that there were none https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middlee...
- sjg007 7y ago
  Except North Korea blew up their mountain base housing them.
  - jhayward 7y ago
    No, it didn't. They don't store their nukes in the test tunnels.

SEJeff 7y ago

*with the help of Pakistan

mises 7y ago

In fairness to him, North Korea's nukes are not that much better than dirty bombs and aren't super high-yield. N. Korea also has total control of the economy because it is communist, so can starve her citizens to fund bomb construction. That said, your point is good. Does any one have a real idea to denuclearize rogue nations (N. Korea, Iran, Pakistan, etc.)? All I've seen is both the Trump and Obama administrations saying very nicely "please, please denuclearize" and imposing sanctions. Problem being, bad nations don't care about their citizens. Could some one please propose a method to force denuclearization by an unwilling nation? Or at least prevent them getting more?

Symmetry 7y ago
In 2006 North Korea had a nuke little better than a dirty bomb. These days, in 2019, they've got a 250 kt thermonuclear bomb. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_and_weapons_of_mas...
- th0ma5 7y ago
  Arguably had a 250kt device, judging by seismic data, although they may have killed a lot of people involved by detonating it? I'm just going by what is in the linked articles from Wikipedia, although the Wikipedia articles themselves don't mention it as it hasn't been independently announced as such by any non media organization.
asadlionpk 7y ago
How is Pakistan a rogue nation?
- leetcrew 7y ago
  there is an official definition of "rogue state" but it's an inherently political term, hard to have an unbiased discussion over who is and is not a rogue state. pakistan does present a bit of a problem for the rest of the world. they have over a hundred nukes and a very tense relationship with their neighbor, india. it's somewhat unstable and ISI has had some questionable (to say the least) dealings with terrorist groups. definitely not a combination that makes other countries very comfortable.

dontbenebby 7y ago

It's not the size of your economy, it's how you use it. (North Korea spends ~22% of their GDP on their military.)