7 ms·

Their title is... ehhhh, I initially thought "oh a bunch of kids with heavy student loan debt for their liberal arts degrees are finding out adulating is hard"

Their title is... ehhhh, I initially thought "oh a bunch of kids with heavy student loan debt for their liberal arts degrees are finding out adulating is hard" but in reality it is: (paraphrasing) my step-father was arrested for a DUI, can't prove citizenship, and my mom needs money to drive to another state to visit him in custody (/) This isn't novel, I've been hit up dozens of times on the street outside of shows, at gas pumps, in parking lots etc. This is just people hoping to hit a larger audience by soliciting twitter. You used to find Jains (or at least similarly dressed individuals) outside of airports begging for money. And then this... >Fans of “The Bachelor” sent contestant Becca Kufrin wine money on Venmo after she was dumped on national television, and more than 3,000 people sent a 23-year-old college student beer money after he held up a sign with his Venmo handle on the “College GameDay” telecast. ... one is just fans blurring the lines of what is appropriate and the other is just a guy hoping to get lucky and presumably making at least 3000 dollars for holding up a sign. What?! Maybe I should walk around with a sign "Will likely have to work til I die, no one wants to give a GED holder a decent wage, only need 700k to retire, @ryancarlmercer", maybe I should stop maintaining an emergency fund and eating beans 10 meals a week to stretch funds.

hosh 7y ago
The larger themes are: 1. Community has always supported people in times of need, more so than government services. 2. The Internet had created distance amount community members 3. Use of the Internet for funds like this (or for Gofundme, etc.) is bringing that back, though with strangers 4. Shifting attitudes and values on whether this is acceptable 5. One Millennial is now setting aside funds for direct contributions. I would not be surprised if that trend continues. 6. Continued pressure on Millennials to make ends meet with access to new technology has been leading to this. 7. Disadvantaged groups and their economic struggles are becoming more visible, along with means for the community to help.
- ryanmercer 7y ago
  The larger theme is "Technology makes it easier for individuals to beg strangers for money". I can't open social media without seeing kickstarter/indiegogo this, gofundme that, need money quick, can someone paypal/venmo me money for thing, etc. Then a day, week, month later you see pictures of their brand new cabinets or of their vacation or they are hitting people up for money again for something else because people gave last time so now they expect regular handouts. Instead of getting creative, people now just go "hey, stranger, you have it better than me, give me your hard earned money!"
  - komali2 7y ago
    I'm having trouble figuring what you're actually saying here. Do you not like that people can beg? Or that they have to at all?
    - ryanmercer 7y ago
      >I'm having trouble figuring what you're actually saying here. I'm saying the internet, specifically social media and payment apps/crowd funding sites, allow people to unabashedly give their (true or otherwise) sob story and beg complete strangers for money, I imagine the vast majority of people on sites like gofundme would hesitate to even phone family for financial assistance and I suspect nearly all of the people begging on social media simply wouldn't ask if they had to walk up to random strangers in person and ask. Keep in mind, I say this while my nephew currently has a gofundme trying to raise 260,000 USD (!!!) for his mother for some experimental, questionable (cryotherapy for her kidney cancer, when it's usually used for skin cancer for example), cancer treatment in China. I think these sites/methods serve a useful purpose, I think however trying to get gas money to give to your mother to go see your undocumented step-father in another state because he was drink driving and is likely to be deported or remain incarcerated... or hitting people up for beer money... is not a valid use of such sites/methods.
      - viraptor 7y ago
        > gas money to give to your mother to go see your undocumented step-father in another state because he was drink driving and is likely to be deported or remain incarcerated... [...] is not a valid use of such sites/methods. Why not?
  - yakshaving_jgt 7y ago
    > Instead of getting creative, people now just go "hey, stranger, you have it better than me, give me your hard earned money!" This isn't new. This is the basis of some rather infamous socio-economic systems which have resulted in the deaths of tens of millions of people.
- gowld 7y ago
  Citation needed for #1
- shanemhansen 7y ago
  > Community has always supported people in times of need Sure, if you are the right gender, race, and religion.
  - neetdeth 7y ago
    The third definition of community from dictionary.com: a social, religious, occupational, or other group sharing common characteristics or interests and perceived or perceiving itself as distinct in some respect from the larger society within which it exists A prerequisite for finding community support is to be a member of one. There are many communities. The commonality and social bonds between members form the basis of trust and the expectation of reciprocity. When people perceive that their resources are simply being expropriated to benefit people they have nothing in common with, may never meet, and certainly cannot expect reciprocal investment from, they tend to withdraw from voluntary participation. Without that participation, communities simply die. It's true that some communities have a larger pool of resources to share than others. But consider this before you condemn a synagogue for helping out a local Jewish family with money that could have gone to taxes to help someone arguably more in need. It's sad that not everyone has a home, but the solution is not to demolish the entire block and apportion to each person an equal share of lumber.
    - kjsbfkjbf 7y ago
      > It's sad that not everyone has a home, but the solution is not to demolish the entire block and apportion to each person an equal share of lumber. ...because? Do some people have more of a right to shelter because their ancestors raped, killed, and enslaved better?
komali2 7y ago
Well, yea, this is why implementing social welfare and safety nets is far better done at the government level, where you have accountability and a justice system. An attractive person holding a clever, written-in-English sign, at a football game that cost them 100$ (or whatever) to attend, garners 3000$ for beer. The ugly, dirty, illiterate homeless person that stands outside of a train station gets 5$ for food. Unfairness can exist at the bureaucratic level (shit like judges being tired and being less lenient towards the evening, or just plain and simple sexism and racism in the justice system), but it's far better than "marketplace of begging for welfare."
- adamredwoods 7y ago
  Falls in line with using GoFundMe for medical bills, the better the story/narrative the more viral the funding: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/01/the-perverse-logic-of-gofundme-health-care https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/01/the-perverse-l...
- phil248 7y ago
  Similarly why a robust welfare state is preferable to charity. Charitable giving is free to discriminate and there's no mechanism to try and move it towards those who most need it.
  - jedmeyers 7y ago
    Do you think welfare state actually distributes funds to whoever needs them? They are giving funds away to everyone who can check x boxes on a form, no one in the government ever verifies if the person actually needs the money, like a charity would do.
    - ses1984 7y ago
      Like some charities would do. If you give charity to someone on gofundme, what charity ever verifies if the person actually needs the money?
      - 7y ago
dgzl 7y ago
There was a local pan-handling couple who was outted on local TV for "scamming people". They were seen shopping at expensive grocery stores and driving with their car. Apparently begging was just their job and made more than a few hundred dollars a day.
JustARandomGuy 7y ago
What you should take away from this article is "community members help each other out with money, the Internet makes communities bigger". For the Bachelorette, I would assume that most of the donaters were young women that have experienced being dumped - the focus being the "community" (or perhaps it would be better to say population) of young women. It's not just random strangers donating. This reminds me strongly of this YouTube video where an adjunct professor who's popular in the Magic TCG community asks for money for support, and gets quite a lot of it: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/35pjuq/tolarian_community_college_talks_about_youtube/ https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/35pjuq/tolarian_c...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

hosh 7y ago

The larger themes are: 1. Community has always supported people in times of need, more so than government services. 2. The Internet had created distance amount community members 3. Use of the Internet for funds like this (or for Gofundme, etc.) is bringing that back, though with strangers 4. Shifting attitudes and values on whether this is acceptable 5. One Millennial is now setting aside funds for direct contributions. I would not be surprised if that trend continues. 6. Continued pressure on Millennials to make ends meet with access to new technology has been leading to this. 7. Disadvantaged groups and their economic struggles are becoming more visible, along with means for the community to help.

ryanmercer 7y ago
The larger theme is "Technology makes it easier for individuals to beg strangers for money". I can't open social media without seeing kickstarter/indiegogo this, gofundme that, need money quick, can someone paypal/venmo me money for thing, etc. Then a day, week, month later you see pictures of their brand new cabinets or of their vacation or they are hitting people up for money again for something else because people gave last time so now they expect regular handouts. Instead of getting creative, people now just go "hey, stranger, you have it better than me, give me your hard earned money!"
- komali2 7y ago
  I'm having trouble figuring what you're actually saying here. Do you not like that people can beg? Or that they have to at all?
  - ryanmercer 7y ago
    >I'm having trouble figuring what you're actually saying here. I'm saying the internet, specifically social media and payment apps/crowd funding sites, allow people to unabashedly give their (true or otherwise) sob story and beg complete strangers for money, I imagine the vast majority of people on sites like gofundme would hesitate to even phone family for financial assistance and I suspect nearly all of the people begging on social media simply wouldn't ask if they had to walk up to random strangers in person and ask. Keep in mind, I say this while my nephew currently has a gofundme trying to raise 260,000 USD (!!!) for his mother for some experimental, questionable (cryotherapy for her kidney cancer, when it's usually used for skin cancer for example), cancer treatment in China. I think these sites/methods serve a useful purpose, I think however trying to get gas money to give to your mother to go see your undocumented step-father in another state because he was drink driving and is likely to be deported or remain incarcerated... or hitting people up for beer money... is not a valid use of such sites/methods.
    - viraptor 7y ago
      > gas money to give to your mother to go see your undocumented step-father in another state because he was drink driving and is likely to be deported or remain incarcerated... [...] is not a valid use of such sites/methods. Why not?
- yakshaving_jgt 7y ago
  > Instead of getting creative, people now just go "hey, stranger, you have it better than me, give me your hard earned money!" This isn't new. This is the basis of some rather infamous socio-economic systems which have resulted in the deaths of tens of millions of people.
gowld 7y ago
Citation needed for #1
shanemhansen 7y ago
> Community has always supported people in times of need Sure, if you are the right gender, race, and religion.
- neetdeth 7y ago
  The third definition of community from dictionary.com: a social, religious, occupational, or other group sharing common characteristics or interests and perceived or perceiving itself as distinct in some respect from the larger society within which it exists A prerequisite for finding community support is to be a member of one. There are many communities. The commonality and social bonds between members form the basis of trust and the expectation of reciprocity. When people perceive that their resources are simply being expropriated to benefit people they have nothing in common with, may never meet, and certainly cannot expect reciprocal investment from, they tend to withdraw from voluntary participation. Without that participation, communities simply die. It's true that some communities have a larger pool of resources to share than others. But consider this before you condemn a synagogue for helping out a local Jewish family with money that could have gone to taxes to help someone arguably more in need. It's sad that not everyone has a home, but the solution is not to demolish the entire block and apportion to each person an equal share of lumber.
  - kjsbfkjbf 7y ago
    > It's sad that not everyone has a home, but the solution is not to demolish the entire block and apportion to each person an equal share of lumber. ...because? Do some people have more of a right to shelter because their ancestors raped, killed, and enslaved better?

komali2 7y ago

Well, yea, this is why implementing social welfare and safety nets is far better done at the government level, where you have accountability and a justice system. An attractive person holding a clever, written-in-English sign, at a football game that cost them 100$ (or whatever) to attend, garners 3000$ for beer. The ugly, dirty, illiterate homeless person that stands outside of a train station gets 5$ for food. Unfairness can exist at the bureaucratic level (shit like judges being tired and being less lenient towards the evening, or just plain and simple sexism and racism in the justice system), but it's far better than "marketplace of begging for welfare."

adamredwoods 7y ago
Falls in line with using GoFundMe for medical bills, the better the story/narrative the more viral the funding: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/01/the-perverse-logic-of-gofundme-health-care https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/01/the-perverse-l...
phil248 7y ago
Similarly why a robust welfare state is preferable to charity. Charitable giving is free to discriminate and there's no mechanism to try and move it towards those who most need it.
- jedmeyers 7y ago
  Do you think welfare state actually distributes funds to whoever needs them? They are giving funds away to everyone who can check x boxes on a form, no one in the government ever verifies if the person actually needs the money, like a charity would do.
  - ses1984 7y ago
    Like some charities would do. If you give charity to someone on gofundme, what charity ever verifies if the person actually needs the money?
    - 7y ago

dgzl 7y ago

There was a local pan-handling couple who was outted on local TV for "scamming people". They were seen shopping at expensive grocery stores and driving with their car. Apparently begging was just their job and made more than a few hundred dollars a day.

JustARandomGuy 7y ago

What you should take away from this article is "community members help each other out with money, the Internet makes communities bigger". For the Bachelorette, I would assume that most of the donaters were young women that have experienced being dumped - the focus being the "community" (or perhaps it would be better to say population) of young women. It's not just random strangers donating. This reminds me strongly of this YouTube video where an adjunct professor who's popular in the Magic TCG community asks for money for support, and gets quite a lot of it: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/35pjuq/tolarian_community_college_talks_about_youtube/ https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/35pjuq/tolarian_c...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]