4 ms·

If you could only pick two out of those three, which would you choose?

by OisinMoran 7y ago

pathseeker 7y ago
individuals and government. Corporations don't exist in a vacuum.
- ixtli 7y ago
  Corporations dictate consumer behavior in the ways that matter here. Do you think individuals agitated for the rise of throw-away goods during the rise of mass produced plastics in the 60s? This was the simply the most companies could do in the production process to maximize profit in a way that wouldn't stop customers from buying. Also, nothing will change until people stop imagining that corporations and government are foreign bodies comprised of something other than their neighbors and themselves.
- slg 7y ago
  It is weird how people pretend that corporations and governments are some type of weird entities with minds of their own instead of just a group of individuals. Individuals changing priorities will directly result in corporations and governments changing priorities.
  - moate 7y ago
    But the inverse is also strongly true. It's why people decry the "nanny-state". The government and corporations can make decisions that result in changes in individual behavior. Many times, it's easier to get 51 senators (or whatever) to agree on pushing policy than mobilizing millions of consumers on the same issue. Part of the advantage of a representative government is that it's a smaller group of people to arrive at a consensus. Societal changes are always about some group reaching a consensus on a topic and collectively acting on their decision. Governments and Corporations can sometimes be easier to deal with than 300+ million individuals when it comes to driving that consensus.
- rat9988 7y ago
  Individuals and corporations. Government doesn't exist in a vaccum. government and corporations. Individuals don't exist in a vaccum. It doesn't prove much.
mac01021 7y ago
If governments put a price on carbon, individuals and corporations will do their parts as a result.
- ixtli 7y ago
  Yes, with the caveat that it must be a large enough tax to make it cheaper to use cleaner energy sources. Otherwise it will go the way of regulatory fines: they become the cost of doing business and amount to a fixed line item on a budget rather than a factor that scales.
  - Retric 7y ago
    Change happens at the margins. NASCAR for example is unlikely to care about even rather extreme carbon taxes, but even fairly small tiny taxes matter for electricity generation which is at a major tipping point.
zjaffee 7y ago
Governments and Corporations will never do anything without strong demand from individuals. Individuals however are completely unable to solve climate change through daily personal decisions, it has to come from large institutions. All in all, the only way to address the issue of climate change is collective mass action, including strikes, boycotts, divestments, ect from all large polluting entities, while simultaneously leaving governments no other options but to address these issues head on.

If you could only pick two out of those three, which would you choose?

pathseeker 7y ago

individuals and government. Corporations don't exist in a vacuum.

ixtli 7y ago
Corporations dictate consumer behavior in the ways that matter here. Do you think individuals agitated for the rise of throw-away goods during the rise of mass produced plastics in the 60s? This was the simply the most companies could do in the production process to maximize profit in a way that wouldn't stop customers from buying. Also, nothing will change until people stop imagining that corporations and government are foreign bodies comprised of something other than their neighbors and themselves.
slg 7y ago
It is weird how people pretend that corporations and governments are some type of weird entities with minds of their own instead of just a group of individuals. Individuals changing priorities will directly result in corporations and governments changing priorities.
- moate 7y ago
  But the inverse is also strongly true. It's why people decry the "nanny-state". The government and corporations can make decisions that result in changes in individual behavior. Many times, it's easier to get 51 senators (or whatever) to agree on pushing policy than mobilizing millions of consumers on the same issue. Part of the advantage of a representative government is that it's a smaller group of people to arrive at a consensus. Societal changes are always about some group reaching a consensus on a topic and collectively acting on their decision. Governments and Corporations can sometimes be easier to deal with than 300+ million individuals when it comes to driving that consensus.
rat9988 7y ago
Individuals and corporations. Government doesn't exist in a vaccum. government and corporations. Individuals don't exist in a vaccum. It doesn't prove much.

mac01021 7y ago

If governments put a price on carbon, individuals and corporations will do their parts as a result.

ixtli 7y ago
Yes, with the caveat that it must be a large enough tax to make it cheaper to use cleaner energy sources. Otherwise it will go the way of regulatory fines: they become the cost of doing business and amount to a fixed line item on a budget rather than a factor that scales.
- Retric 7y ago
  Change happens at the margins. NASCAR for example is unlikely to care about even rather extreme carbon taxes, but even fairly small tiny taxes matter for electricity generation which is at a major tipping point.

zjaffee 7y ago

Governments and Corporations will never do anything without strong demand from individuals. Individuals however are completely unable to solve climate change through daily personal decisions, it has to come from large institutions. All in all, the only way to address the issue of climate change is collective mass action, including strikes, boycotts, divestments, ect from all large polluting entities, while simultaneously leaving governments no other options but to address these issues head on.