5 ms·

The data security side of gdpr is strong, imo. Even before these fines, the disclosure requirement is "teeth." It's already having major positive impact. The u

The data security side of gdpr is strong, imo. Even before these fines, the disclosure requirement is "teeth." It's already having major positive impact. The user consent parts of gdpr, are, imo, not good. Any wins though are better than nothing.

vijayr02 7y ago
Genuine question: what specific changes to the user content parts would you want to see? Thanks
- gnode 7y ago
  I'm assuming they meant enforcement of Art. 7 of the GDPR: https://gdpr-info.eu/art-7-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-7-gdpr/
  - dalbasal 7y ago
    Enforcement is certainly not great, but I actually meant that I think it is badly conceived.
- dalbasal 7y ago
  I don't have a strong/mature alternative of my own. But, I feel that assuming a pseudo-contractual relationship between websites and users is euphemism. I feel the same way about user agreements. The south park parody of apple's sums it up, for me. Not even judges read it. It can't form the basis of a consent model. I think bans on certain types of tracking would be preferable to "consent." If we are determined to have explicit contracts, we need to be realistic and take incentives into account. If the website controls the UI of the "opt in," language of the contract and such... they have a high level of control over outcomes... and these are highly manipulated to secure convenient outcomes. UI plays a far bigger role in determining the "consent" outcomes than user preferences. So, if we are determined to go down this route, "consent management" needs to be "open" to 3rd parties chosen by users and allow central management, user selected defaults and 3rd party recommendations/defaults. If user consent actually reflected informed user preferences, FB's tracking pixel would be disabled for >90% of users. What possible benefit is this to users? The overlap between people who are paranoid that FB is listening to their conversations via the phone mic and users who have "consented" to advertiser cookies on a bunch of sites tells me that this model for consent is fundamentally broken. On the flip side if you (or someone) doesn't mind.... I can tell from the downvotes (also on similar comments) that this is an unpopular opinion. Anyone care to defend gdpr "consent" as it exists currently. I don't mean the aspirational language of the law, I mean consent in the wild under gdpr today.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
    I personally doubt that the common click-here-to-agree-to-everything implementations in the wild comply with the law, and I expect they are under scrutiny and the hammer will come down on them at some point.
gnode 7y ago
> The user consent parts of gdpr, are, imo, not good. Indeed, this seems to be really lacking as far as I've seen. Compliance with article 7 section 4 in particular (provision of service must not be conditional on consent for processing of personal data not necessary for provision of that service) is blatantly ignored by many actors, with a message of "accept our tracking or we won't let you see our content". Others pretend to be in compliance by having an opt-out which never completes, or other dark patterns.
- cevn 7y ago
  Agree, this needs to be seriously enforced. Web browsing is a PITA now with all these popups that only have an "I Accept" box with no way to dismiss the notification otherwise. Usually I just close the tab.
  - Benjamin_Dobell 7y ago
    Luckily they're usually poorly implemented and you can just "Inspect Element" + delete. Although, in saying that, given the lack of official opt-out functionality, using the site will probably result in tracking.
    - klez 7y ago
      Wasn't the point (or at least one of them) of the GDPR that the consent was to be opt-in?
      - gnode 7y ago
        Yes. So if they track you after you delete their consent overlay, you'd have grounds to complain about them to your data protection agency.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Since so many companies seem to be outsourcing these popups, possibly because they're enrolled in some ad-network cooperations, I wonder if it would be possible to build a browser extension that would automatically submit these forms with everything set to "no consent".

vijayr02 7y ago

Genuine question: what specific changes to the user content parts would you want to see? Thanks

gnode 7y ago
I'm assuming they meant enforcement of Art. 7 of the GDPR: https://gdpr-info.eu/art-7-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-7-gdpr/
- dalbasal 7y ago
  Enforcement is certainly not great, but I actually meant that I think it is badly conceived.
dalbasal 7y ago
I don't have a strong/mature alternative of my own. But, I feel that assuming a pseudo-contractual relationship between websites and users is euphemism. I feel the same way about user agreements. The south park parody of apple's sums it up, for me. Not even judges read it. It can't form the basis of a consent model. I think bans on certain types of tracking would be preferable to "consent." If we are determined to have explicit contracts, we need to be realistic and take incentives into account. If the website controls the UI of the "opt in," language of the contract and such... they have a high level of control over outcomes... and these are highly manipulated to secure convenient outcomes. UI plays a far bigger role in determining the "consent" outcomes than user preferences. So, if we are determined to go down this route, "consent management" needs to be "open" to 3rd parties chosen by users and allow central management, user selected defaults and 3rd party recommendations/defaults. If user consent actually reflected informed user preferences, FB's tracking pixel would be disabled for >90% of users. What possible benefit is this to users? The overlap between people who are paranoid that FB is listening to their conversations via the phone mic and users who have "consented" to advertiser cookies on a bunch of sites tells me that this model for consent is fundamentally broken. On the flip side if you (or someone) doesn't mind.... I can tell from the downvotes (also on similar comments) that this is an unpopular opinion. Anyone care to defend gdpr "consent" as it exists currently. I don't mean the aspirational language of the law, I mean consent in the wild under gdpr today.
- TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
  I personally doubt that the common click-here-to-agree-to-everything implementations in the wild comply with the law, and I expect they are under scrutiny and the hammer will come down on them at some point.

gnode 7y ago

> The user consent parts of gdpr, are, imo, not good. Indeed, this seems to be really lacking as far as I've seen. Compliance with article 7 section 4 in particular (provision of service must not be conditional on consent for processing of personal data not necessary for provision of that service) is blatantly ignored by many actors, with a message of "accept our tracking or we won't let you see our content". Others pretend to be in compliance by having an opt-out which never completes, or other dark patterns.

cevn 7y ago
Agree, this needs to be seriously enforced. Web browsing is a PITA now with all these popups that only have an "I Accept" box with no way to dismiss the notification otherwise. Usually I just close the tab.
- Benjamin_Dobell 7y ago
  Luckily they're usually poorly implemented and you can just "Inspect Element" + delete. Although, in saying that, given the lack of official opt-out functionality, using the site will probably result in tracking.
  - klez 7y ago
    Wasn't the point (or at least one of them) of the GDPR that the consent was to be opt-in?
    - gnode 7y ago
      Yes. So if they track you after you delete their consent overlay, you'd have grounds to complain about them to your data protection agency.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Since so many companies seem to be outsourcing these popups, possibly because they're enrolled in some ad-network cooperations, I wonder if it would be possible to build a browser extension that would automatically submit these forms with everything set to "no consent".