4 ms·

I was really careful enough in my wording: Facebook sells privacy sensitive data as in very, very specific target groups for among other things ad targeting for

by ratel 7y ago

I was really careful enough in my wording: Facebook sells privacy sensitive data as in very, very specific target groups for among other things ad targeting for their customers to use. I did not refer to the selling of private data.

umanwizard 7y ago
I genuinely don’t understand the distinction you’re making. Facebook does not make its money from “selling data” at all, whether “private data” or “privacy-sensitive data”.
- ghostpepper 7y ago
  Not the OP, but I am guessing they are trying to say that the distinction between "you pay facebook and they give you a database full of private data" and "you pay facebook and they give you API access to a database of private data and allow you to query it in myriad ways leading to you creating your own database of highly accurate private data" is not as important a distinction as Facebook would have you believe. Or something along those lines.
  - umanwizard 7y ago
    But Facebook doesn’t let advertisers query their database of private data. I agree that if they did, it would not be very different from selling data, but they don’t.
    - sasasassy 7y ago
      But.. they do, though. You can (and people do) make a very targeted ad, then query what users matched with it, and so on until you've sufficient data for your purposes. Plus you can use their public APIs to then match their ad data with the users public information. Facebook knows this, and does not prevent it (by hiding user identifiers for instance) because it's part of their strategy.
      - Voxoff 7y ago
        Ah now this is sneaky. Is this widespread? Any sources?
        scarejunba 7y ago
        By making a Custom Audience and then selectively uploading? I think you have to agree to not do this. The audience size tricks like uploading an audience, then adding one to it and reuploading won’t work. There’s a cardinality fudging thing.
        ambicapter 7y ago
        Here's a guy targeting his roommate[0]. Previous discussion[1]. [0] https://ghostinfluence.com/the-ultimate-retaliation-pranking-my-roommate-with-targeted-facebook-ads/ https://ghostinfluence.com/the-ultimate-retaliation-pranking... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8330931 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8330931
- ratel 7y ago
  Dear umanwizard, Genuinely not understanding something is fine. Already claiming someone was intellectually dishonest because you misread or misunderstood not so much. The ads business of Facebook is based on the very specific data Facebook can provide their advertisers for very specific target audiences based on private information they gathered through their platform. Like ads for people who die their hair, have an affliction for cheese burgers, are right wing and live in zip code 20500. That is privacy sensitive information (although I picked a public person for this example). They do not provide customers with Trump's private number. That would be private data. They do not just sell ads on their platform, they sell specific target audiences on their platform.
  - umanwizard 7y ago
    > The ads business or Facebook is based on the very specific data Facebook can provide their advertisers Again, no it isn’t. Facebook at no point provides data to its advertisers. Yes, advertisers can say “show this ad to people who are right-wing and live in DC” (although I doubt “dyed hair” is a category). However, the advertisers are never provided with any data about who is in that category. That data never leaves Facebook.

by ratel 7y ago

umanwizard 7y ago

I genuinely don’t understand the distinction you’re making. Facebook does not make its money from “selling data” at all, whether “private data” or “privacy-sensitive data”.

ghostpepper 7y ago
Not the OP, but I am guessing they are trying to say that the distinction between "you pay facebook and they give you a database full of private data" and "you pay facebook and they give you API access to a database of private data and allow you to query it in myriad ways leading to you creating your own database of highly accurate private data" is not as important a distinction as Facebook would have you believe. Or something along those lines.
- umanwizard 7y ago
  But Facebook doesn’t let advertisers query their database of private data. I agree that if they did, it would not be very different from selling data, but they don’t.
  - sasasassy 7y ago
    But.. they do, though. You can (and people do) make a very targeted ad, then query what users matched with it, and so on until you've sufficient data for your purposes. Plus you can use their public APIs to then match their ad data with the users public information. Facebook knows this, and does not prevent it (by hiding user identifiers for instance) because it's part of their strategy.
    - Voxoff 7y ago
      Ah now this is sneaky. Is this widespread? Any sources?
      - scarejunba 7y ago
        By making a Custom Audience and then selectively uploading? I think you have to agree to not do this. The audience size tricks like uploading an audience, then adding one to it and reuploading won’t work. There’s a cardinality fudging thing.
      - ambicapter 7y ago
        Here's a guy targeting his roommate[0]. Previous discussion[1]. [0] https://ghostinfluence.com/the-ultimate-retaliation-pranking-my-roommate-with-targeted-facebook-ads/ https://ghostinfluence.com/the-ultimate-retaliation-pranking... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8330931 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8330931
ratel 7y ago
Dear umanwizard, Genuinely not understanding something is fine. Already claiming someone was intellectually dishonest because you misread or misunderstood not so much. The ads business of Facebook is based on the very specific data Facebook can provide their advertisers for very specific target audiences based on private information they gathered through their platform. Like ads for people who die their hair, have an affliction for cheese burgers, are right wing and live in zip code 20500. That is privacy sensitive information (although I picked a public person for this example). They do not provide customers with Trump's private number. That would be private data. They do not just sell ads on their platform, they sell specific target audiences on their platform.
- umanwizard 7y ago
  > The ads business or Facebook is based on the very specific data Facebook can provide their advertisers Again, no it isn’t. Facebook at no point provides data to its advertisers. Yes, advertisers can say “show this ad to people who are right-wing and live in DC” (although I doubt “dyed hair” is a category). However, the advertisers are never provided with any data about who is in that category. That data never leaves Facebook.