2 ms·

Your comment would be more appropriate for HN without the condescending "Uh, no." at the beginning. (It's in the guidelines.)

by mcantor 16y ago

gjm11 16y ago
Actually, it isn't in the guidelines (they say no name-calling, and nothing you wouldn't say in ordinary conversation, but -- for better or worse -- I might in fact say pretty much that in ordinary conversation). In the face of confidently presented misinformation, I think it's reasonable to begin with something that indicates that I'm offering a correction and not merely a disagreement. Even if that comes across as less than perfectly polite: correcting someone isn't a perfectly polite thing to do. (Of course, it really is rude to present something as a correction rather than a disagreement if you're not actually right. So I wouldn't do it if I weren't very confident that GrandMasterBirt is all wrong about what "agnostic" means. And I'll look very silly if it turns out that I'm the one who's wrong. But I am, and he is, and I'm not.)
- mcantor 16y ago
  From the guidelines, for anyone who hasn't clicked: In Comments When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. E.g. "That is an idiotic thing to say; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." --- "Uh, no." IMHO carries a different connotation than, for example, "Actually." I think the former is very much like "That's idiotic" and the latter comes off as more polite. It might be because I hung out with too many Liberal Arts students (who subsist on Pabst Blue Ribbon and sarcasm), but when I read "Uh, no." I hear it in the condescending tone that announces "You are so lamentably incorrect that I have to say 'Uhhhh...' just to give myself time to process how wrong you are." I suppose I am defeating my own point, because you can also say "Actually" in the exact same tone. But, I feel like it's almost impossible to say "Uh, no." without the corresponding condescension. The "Uh" is very powerful; moreso in text! Because it means not only did you have that moment of cognitive dissonance--the "Uhh" moment in which you process the depth of their wrongness--but that you are also announcing that dissonance to your conversational partner. That, I think, is where the perceived rudeness comes in. --- Also, I understand what you mean about degrees of certainty, but it's important to remember that you could still be wrong no matter how certain you are. That doesn't mean you should eschew presenting or advertising your well-researched beliefs; just that there are ways to communicate them without presenting them as the certainties you (perhaps wrongfully) assume they are.

Your comment would be more appropriate for HN without the condescending "Uh, no." at the beginning. (It's in the guidelines.)

by mcantor 16y ago

Your comment would be more appropriate for HN without the condescending "Uh, no." at the beginning. (It's in the guidelines.)

gjm11 16y ago

Actually, it isn't in the guidelines (they say no name-calling, and nothing you wouldn't say in ordinary conversation, but -- for better or worse -- I might in fact say pretty much that in ordinary conversation). In the face of confidently presented misinformation, I think it's reasonable to begin with something that indicates that I'm offering a correction and not merely a disagreement. Even if that comes across as less than perfectly polite: correcting someone isn't a perfectly polite thing to do. (Of course, it really is rude to present something as a correction rather than a disagreement if you're not actually right. So I wouldn't do it if I weren't very confident that GrandMasterBirt is all wrong about what "agnostic" means. And I'll look very silly if it turns out that I'm the one who's wrong. But I am, and he is, and I'm not.)

mcantor 16y ago
From the guidelines, for anyone who hasn't clicked: In Comments When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. E.g. "That is an idiotic thing to say; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." --- "Uh, no." IMHO carries a different connotation than, for example, "Actually." I think the former is very much like "That's idiotic" and the latter comes off as more polite. It might be because I hung out with too many Liberal Arts students (who subsist on Pabst Blue Ribbon and sarcasm), but when I read "Uh, no." I hear it in the condescending tone that announces "You are so lamentably incorrect that I have to say 'Uhhhh...' just to give myself time to process how wrong you are." I suppose I am defeating my own point, because you can also say "Actually" in the exact same tone. But, I feel like it's almost impossible to say "Uh, no." without the corresponding condescension. The "Uh" is very powerful; moreso in text! Because it means not only did you have that moment of cognitive dissonance--the "Uhh" moment in which you process the depth of their wrongness--but that you are also announcing that dissonance to your conversational partner. That, I think, is where the perceived rudeness comes in. --- Also, I understand what you mean about degrees of certainty, but it's important to remember that you could still be wrong no matter how certain you are. That doesn't mean you should eschew presenting or advertising your well-researched beliefs; just that there are ways to communicate them without presenting them as the certainties you (perhaps wrongfully) assume they are.