4 ms·

Keep in mind you might be heavily biased because you're used to macOS. When I had to switch from Windows 10 to macOS last year for work, I was flabbergasted at

by thiht 7y ago

Keep in mind you might be heavily biased because you're used to macOS. When I had to switch from Windows 10 to macOS last year for work, I was flabbergasted at how the general UX sucked compared to what I expected: - it's not possible to switch between multiple windows of the same application with Cmd+Tab - it's not possible to display two windows side by side without switching to fullscreen mode - it's hard to make some applications take the whole screen without using the weird fullscreen mode - the apps don't close when you click the close button. I get that there used to be a reason for this, nowadays it's just bad design - it's not possible at all to split the screen horizontally - multi-monitor sucks hard - there's no mini calendar on the clock - the contextual top bar is awful - the Finder is a monstrosity - Cmd+shift+4 for a screen capture? come on... - the difference between cmd, option and control is still not clear There are a lot of good things on macOS but come on, a lot of things suck really bad > finding a wifi password what? > arranging windows No. Just no.

dasKrokodil 7y ago
I agree with all of this and would like to add that Windows is much better than OS X if you have a keyboard-centric workflow. For example, if you want to navigate dialog windows with the keyboard, you can just press Alt + one of the underscored letters to directly press a button in Windows. In OS X, you have to press tab a million times until you have reached your desired button and then press space... The window management via keyboard is also much better in Windows. Also I hate that the Home/End keys are broken in OS X. I get that you can use command+right/left instead, but that doesn't work in the terminal for some reason :(
- ymolodtsov 7y ago
  >> In OS X, you have to press tab a million times until you have reached your desired button and then press space... What do you mean? If you have a dialog button you just need to click Cmd-"First letter of the command that you need". The system never teaches you, true, but it's there.
  - dasKrokodil 7y ago
    I just tried this in TextEdit by writing something and then quitting without saving first. It didn't work for the 'Delete' and 'Cancel' buttons. It did work for the 'Save' button, but that one is the default anyway, so I could've just pressed return instead.
    - ymolodtsov 7y ago
      Checked it, TextEdit has a slightly unusual modal window, generally it works throughout the system.
jvzr 7y ago
Which also applies in reverse (but I know you are aware of that) - Key combo to switch between apps, another to switch between windows of the current app. Makes sense to me - It is possible, although not easily as Windows 10 - Double-click on title bar and/or cmd-click on green traffic light - You mean vertically? I'm pretty sure macOS only allows horizontal splitting, which feels limited I agree - Agree to disagree. Windows losing their position when connecting/disconnecting displays on Win 10 infuriates me - Agreed. Though there are a lot of apps that can replace the clock with a clock + calendar combo, some are free. On Win 10, I can't believe the calendar doesn't display week numbers, and I cannot replace that - I love it. To each their own - you mean UX or bugs? I much prefer the Finder to Explorer, which always looks so bloated to me - the beauty is in having full screen / box capture as file / to clipboard in 4 easy shortcuts, system wide. Compare to Win 10 Snipping Tool, it's night & day
jhanschoo 7y ago
It's supposed to be something that comes with the OS, but I'm a satisfied user of Moom (https://manytricks.com/moom/ https://manytricks.com/moom/) that alleviates most of the window positioning issues you touched upon.
knubie 7y ago
> it's not possible to switch between multiple windows of the same application with Cmd+Tab I think Cmd + backtick will do what you want.
- spiffytech 7y ago
  Cmd-backtick technically works, but is its own mess. It doesn't have a preview mechanism like Cmd-tab/Alt-tab, so you bring a bunch of windows forward that _stay_ forward while you look for the one you want. Then you have to go back and bring forward the windows you just covered up so you can see what you wanted. I wind up installing Contexts on my Macs, which changes Cmd-tab to behave just like Windows' Alt-tab.
  - ymolodtsov 7y ago
    It's also still impossible to switch between the windows of the same app located at different spaces.
rickyc091 7y ago
If you save a wifi password, you can retrieve it in the Mac Keychain. If you've logged into the WiFi network on another iOS device, you can automatically share the password to your other devices. I'm sure you can retrieve the wifi password on Windows, but there's probably a learning curve for someone unfamiliar with the ecosystem.
- jplayer01 7y ago
  > I'm sure you can retrieve the wifi password on Windows, but there's probably a learning curve for someone unfamiliar with the ecosystem. They've made it far worse in Windows 10 to find your wifi password. You have to click through a bunch of Metro windows before stumbling into the right dialog, which is a Win32 application. In Windows 7, it took a total of 2 clicks to reach it. Now? I feel like I have to guess every time how to get to the right dialog because it seems to change with every update. It used to be much quicker to reach on Win10 even, but they removed all the quick paths to reach it.
wtallis 7y ago
> the apps don't close when you click the close button. I get that there used to be a reason for this, nowadays it's just bad design Are there any apps in particular for which you feel that this behavior is worse? It's supposed to be for document-centric applications or those that do something useful in the background (eg. iTunes). On Windows, the latter category tends to clutter up the system tray, while the former category just forces the user to wait for the whole application to re-launch if the last document was closed. Splash screens are mostly a thing of the past, but app launch times are still noticeable, and re-activating an application that was merely swapped out by the OS is faster than a cold start of the app.
- Sir_Vival 7y ago
  I hate any application in Windows that doesn't close when I hit the close button. If you want your application to minimize to the taskbar, have that happen when I hit the minimize button. The same goes for phones, too. The last time I used Discord on my phone I ended up restarting the whole phone because I couldn't figure out how to close it.
  - wtallis 7y ago
    > I hate any application in Windows that doesn't close when I hit the close button. If you want your application to minimize to the taskbar, have that happen when I hit the minimize button. That's reasonable, because on Windows there's no clear distinction between the process and the window. On MacOS, there's real functionality provided by the dock icon and menu even in the absence of any window.
checktheorder 7y ago
>> arranging windows >No. Just no. The smartest thing that developers of window managers on Linux can do (as many have done) is straight-up copy Windows' winkey-arrow behaviour. It's one of those things that should be standard on every system with a keyboard and some sort of multiple-window multitasking. When I used OSX I really liked it for the under-the-hood stuff, but window management was a miserable experience.

by thiht 7y ago

dasKrokodil 7y ago

I agree with all of this and would like to add that Windows is much better than OS X if you have a keyboard-centric workflow. For example, if you want to navigate dialog windows with the keyboard, you can just press Alt + one of the underscored letters to directly press a button in Windows. In OS X, you have to press tab a million times until you have reached your desired button and then press space... The window management via keyboard is also much better in Windows. Also I hate that the Home/End keys are broken in OS X. I get that you can use command+right/left instead, but that doesn't work in the terminal for some reason :(

ymolodtsov 7y ago
>> In OS X, you have to press tab a million times until you have reached your desired button and then press space... What do you mean? If you have a dialog button you just need to click Cmd-"First letter of the command that you need". The system never teaches you, true, but it's there.
- dasKrokodil 7y ago
  I just tried this in TextEdit by writing something and then quitting without saving first. It didn't work for the 'Delete' and 'Cancel' buttons. It did work for the 'Save' button, but that one is the default anyway, so I could've just pressed return instead.
  - ymolodtsov 7y ago
    Checked it, TextEdit has a slightly unusual modal window, generally it works throughout the system.

jvzr 7y ago

Which also applies in reverse (but I know you are aware of that) - Key combo to switch between apps, another to switch between windows of the current app. Makes sense to me - It is possible, although not easily as Windows 10 - Double-click on title bar and/or cmd-click on green traffic light - You mean vertically? I'm pretty sure macOS only allows horizontal splitting, which feels limited I agree - Agree to disagree. Windows losing their position when connecting/disconnecting displays on Win 10 infuriates me - Agreed. Though there are a lot of apps that can replace the clock with a clock + calendar combo, some are free. On Win 10, I can't believe the calendar doesn't display week numbers, and I cannot replace that - I love it. To each their own - you mean UX or bugs? I much prefer the Finder to Explorer, which always looks so bloated to me - the beauty is in having full screen / box capture as file / to clipboard in 4 easy shortcuts, system wide. Compare to Win 10 Snipping Tool, it's night & day

jhanschoo 7y ago

It's supposed to be something that comes with the OS, but I'm a satisfied user of Moom (https://manytricks.com/moom/ https://manytricks.com/moom/) that alleviates most of the window positioning issues you touched upon.

knubie 7y ago

> it's not possible to switch between multiple windows of the same application with Cmd+Tab I think Cmd + backtick will do what you want.

spiffytech 7y ago
Cmd-backtick technically works, but is its own mess. It doesn't have a preview mechanism like Cmd-tab/Alt-tab, so you bring a bunch of windows forward that _stay_ forward while you look for the one you want. Then you have to go back and bring forward the windows you just covered up so you can see what you wanted. I wind up installing Contexts on my Macs, which changes Cmd-tab to behave just like Windows' Alt-tab.
- ymolodtsov 7y ago
  It's also still impossible to switch between the windows of the same app located at different spaces.

rickyc091 7y ago

If you save a wifi password, you can retrieve it in the Mac Keychain. If you've logged into the WiFi network on another iOS device, you can automatically share the password to your other devices. I'm sure you can retrieve the wifi password on Windows, but there's probably a learning curve for someone unfamiliar with the ecosystem.

jplayer01 7y ago
> I'm sure you can retrieve the wifi password on Windows, but there's probably a learning curve for someone unfamiliar with the ecosystem. They've made it far worse in Windows 10 to find your wifi password. You have to click through a bunch of Metro windows before stumbling into the right dialog, which is a Win32 application. In Windows 7, it took a total of 2 clicks to reach it. Now? I feel like I have to guess every time how to get to the right dialog because it seems to change with every update. It used to be much quicker to reach on Win10 even, but they removed all the quick paths to reach it.

wtallis 7y ago

> the apps don't close when you click the close button. I get that there used to be a reason for this, nowadays it's just bad design Are there any apps in particular for which you feel that this behavior is worse? It's supposed to be for document-centric applications or those that do something useful in the background (eg. iTunes). On Windows, the latter category tends to clutter up the system tray, while the former category just forces the user to wait for the whole application to re-launch if the last document was closed. Splash screens are mostly a thing of the past, but app launch times are still noticeable, and re-activating an application that was merely swapped out by the OS is faster than a cold start of the app.

Sir_Vival 7y ago
I hate any application in Windows that doesn't close when I hit the close button. If you want your application to minimize to the taskbar, have that happen when I hit the minimize button. The same goes for phones, too. The last time I used Discord on my phone I ended up restarting the whole phone because I couldn't figure out how to close it.
- wtallis 7y ago
  > I hate any application in Windows that doesn't close when I hit the close button. If you want your application to minimize to the taskbar, have that happen when I hit the minimize button. That's reasonable, because on Windows there's no clear distinction between the process and the window. On MacOS, there's real functionality provided by the dock icon and menu even in the absence of any window.

checktheorder 7y ago

>> arranging windows >No. Just no. The smartest thing that developers of window managers on Linux can do (as many have done) is straight-up copy Windows' winkey-arrow behaviour. It's one of those things that should be standard on every system with a keyboard and some sort of multiple-window multitasking. When I used OSX I really liked it for the under-the-hood stuff, but window management was a miserable experience.