10 ms·

Can Facebook Save California?

13 points by miraj 16y ago

sharednothing 16y ago
The first surveillance state of the union, brought to you by the national security apparatus - national infrastructure division. (facebook+cisco+your-isp=full-stack-surveillance, little brother.)
ronnier 16y ago
Building data centers in Oregon[1] and North Carolina[2] sure won't help. Why would a California based company build their first data center in Oregon? [1]http://www.facebook.com/blog.php?post=262655797130 http://www.facebook.com/blog.php?post=262655797130 [2]http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/11/12/1831199/facebookfacilitycomingto-nc.html http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/11/12/1831199/facebook...
- borism 16y ago
  tax break, what else? After officially announcing plans to build a data center in Prineville on Thursday, Facebook officials told The Bulletin that the tax incentive offered to the company through an enterprise zone was a key reason it came to Central Oregon. By locating its new data center in the zone, Facebook will be excused from paying as much as $2.8 million a year in local taxes. http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100122/NEWS0107/1220410/1001/NEWS01&nav_category=NEWS01 http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100... Seriously, 50bn SecondMarket cap company looking to save $2.8 million in taxes?
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    Seriously, 50bn SecondMarket cap company looking to save $2.8 million in taxes? $2 million here, $3 million there, sooner or later it adds up to real money. A $50 billion company doesn't stay a $50 billion company by blowing $2.8 million on nothing. Sadly, that's a lesson the California gov never learned. If they had, they might not be wasting similar amounts of money on pensions for criminals. http://www.newsoxy.com/world/disgraced-sheriff-pension-13760.html http://www.newsoxy.com/world/disgraced-sheriff-pension-13760...
    - borism 16y ago
      by blowing $2.8 million on nothing sure, so now Oregon will loan additional $2.8M here and $3M there until it itself becomes the California and comes back to FB asking for money. Of course by then there will be plenty of bankrupt states (countries even?) willing to offer tax breaks to help wonderful companies like FB to relocate.
      - yummyfajitas 16y ago
        Or perhaps Oregon will just spend $900 per person less than California. http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/287.html http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/287.html This move is a win for Oregon. A small pieces of something is better than a big piece of nothing (which is all CA gets).
        borism 16y ago
        Wow, how did Alaska manage to outspend pretty much everyone by 100+% ? Bridges to nowhere and stuff like that? Anyway, this is getting offtopic since this $2.8M p.a. is breadcrumbs compared to what FB employees will be paying in tax to California and Washington after the liquidity event. And it's not like THEY'll be moving from Silicon Valley any time soon. So no, Cali is still getting plenty of it.
    - yequalsx 16y ago
      You can find examples of some public employees getting outrageous pensions but these examples are at not typical. Given that California has a huge budget shortfall are you suggesting that this shortfall is due mostly to outrageous pensions? We presently live in a system where states often times compete with each other to offer incentives to attract factories or other operations that employ a lot of people. These tax incentives are paid for by the people of the state, that is, by the workers. It's a perverse system. Maybe companies should be willing to pay their share of national defense, roads, etc.
      - ryanwaggoner 16y ago
  - jbellis 16y ago
    I believe the evaluation for large data center locations looks something like this: 1) Where can we get cheap power? 2) Of those locations, where can we save on taxes, building costs, labor, etc? AFAIK there isn't anywhere in CA that qualifies for 1).
- 1010011010 16y ago
  Power and land. California doesn't have much spare power, and land is certainly cheaper in Oregon and NC.
  - borism 16y ago
    I wonder why that is not a problem for example for EC2 US-West (the cheapest EC2 availability zone)? us-west-1 is a great success. Just two weeks after its official launch its level of activity is 73% of eu-west-1, which has been around for a whole year! http://www.jackofallclouds.com/2009/12/comparing-amazon-ec2-regions/ http://www.jackofallclouds.com/2009/12/comparing-amazon-ec2-... California is twice the area of Ireland AFAIK?
schwit 16y ago
California can't be saved as long as they have pension obligations that far outstrip any potential new sources of income. http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/06/opinion/la-oe-crane6-2010apr06 http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/06/opinion/la-oe-crane6...
- borism 16y ago
  did you too not notice the /opinion/ part in the url you provide? please do not submit someone's opinion as a fact. could you provide a link to the original studies mentioned in the article?
fredoliveira 16y ago
the thing I found most interesting in this article was the fact that facebook is now trading at a 67B valuation on the secondary market, making it almost 1/3rd of what google is today. Very impressive growth.
- borism 16y ago
  it was 50bn last week :)
  - jdp23 16y ago
    but it's not a bubble ...
    - thewordpainter 16y ago
      i might concur with that sentiment...but i think facebook is not the best example. their upside is still tremendous, as they haven't fully exploited their ad revenue (which is better positioned than google imo)
      - jdp23 16y ago
        Facebook does have tremendous potential upside (as well as significant risks). But it's really hard for me to see any reason their valuation would increased by 30% in the last few weeks.

13 points by miraj 16y ago

The first surveillance state of the union, brought to you by the national security apparatus - national infrastructure division. (facebook+cisco+your-isp=full-stack-surveillance, little brother.)

ronnier 16y ago

Building data centers in Oregon[1] and North Carolina[2] sure won't help. Why would a California based company build their first data center in Oregon? [1]http://www.facebook.com/blog.php?post=262655797130 http://www.facebook.com/blog.php?post=262655797130 [2]http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/11/12/1831199/facebookfacilitycomingto-nc.html http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/11/12/1831199/facebook...

borism 16y ago
tax break, what else? After officially announcing plans to build a data center in Prineville on Thursday, Facebook officials told The Bulletin that the tax incentive offered to the company through an enterprise zone was a key reason it came to Central Oregon. By locating its new data center in the zone, Facebook will be excused from paying as much as $2.8 million a year in local taxes. http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100122/NEWS0107/1220410/1001/NEWS01&nav_category=NEWS01 http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100... Seriously, 50bn SecondMarket cap company looking to save $2.8 million in taxes?
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  Seriously, 50bn SecondMarket cap company looking to save $2.8 million in taxes? $2 million here, $3 million there, sooner or later it adds up to real money. A $50 billion company doesn't stay a $50 billion company by blowing $2.8 million on nothing. Sadly, that's a lesson the California gov never learned. If they had, they might not be wasting similar amounts of money on pensions for criminals. http://www.newsoxy.com/world/disgraced-sheriff-pension-13760.html http://www.newsoxy.com/world/disgraced-sheriff-pension-13760...
  - borism 16y ago
    by blowing $2.8 million on nothing sure, so now Oregon will loan additional $2.8M here and $3M there until it itself becomes the California and comes back to FB asking for money. Of course by then there will be plenty of bankrupt states (countries even?) willing to offer tax breaks to help wonderful companies like FB to relocate.
    - yummyfajitas 16y ago
      Or perhaps Oregon will just spend $900 per person less than California. http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/287.html http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/287.html This move is a win for Oregon. A small pieces of something is better than a big piece of nothing (which is all CA gets).
      - borism 16y ago
        Wow, how did Alaska manage to outspend pretty much everyone by 100+% ? Bridges to nowhere and stuff like that? Anyway, this is getting offtopic since this $2.8M p.a. is breadcrumbs compared to what FB employees will be paying in tax to California and Washington after the liquidity event. And it's not like THEY'll be moving from Silicon Valley any time soon. So no, Cali is still getting plenty of it.
  - yequalsx 16y ago
    You can find examples of some public employees getting outrageous pensions but these examples are at not typical. Given that California has a huge budget shortfall are you suggesting that this shortfall is due mostly to outrageous pensions? We presently live in a system where states often times compete with each other to offer incentives to attract factories or other operations that employ a lot of people. These tax incentives are paid for by the people of the state, that is, by the workers. It's a perverse system. Maybe companies should be willing to pay their share of national defense, roads, etc.
    - ryanwaggoner 16y ago
- jbellis 16y ago
  I believe the evaluation for large data center locations looks something like this: 1) Where can we get cheap power? 2) Of those locations, where can we save on taxes, building costs, labor, etc? AFAIK there isn't anywhere in CA that qualifies for 1).
1010011010 16y ago
Power and land. California doesn't have much spare power, and land is certainly cheaper in Oregon and NC.
- borism 16y ago
  I wonder why that is not a problem for example for EC2 US-West (the cheapest EC2 availability zone)? us-west-1 is a great success. Just two weeks after its official launch its level of activity is 73% of eu-west-1, which has been around for a whole year! http://www.jackofallclouds.com/2009/12/comparing-amazon-ec2-regions/ http://www.jackofallclouds.com/2009/12/comparing-amazon-ec2-... California is twice the area of Ireland AFAIK?

schwit 16y ago

California can't be saved as long as they have pension obligations that far outstrip any potential new sources of income. http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/06/opinion/la-oe-crane6-2010apr06 http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/06/opinion/la-oe-crane6...

borism 16y ago
did you too not notice the /opinion/ part in the url you provide? please do not submit someone's opinion as a fact. could you provide a link to the original studies mentioned in the article?

fredoliveira 16y ago

the thing I found most interesting in this article was the fact that facebook is now trading at a 67B valuation on the secondary market, making it almost 1/3rd of what google is today. Very impressive growth.

borism 16y ago
it was 50bn last week :)
- jdp23 16y ago
  but it's not a bubble ...
  - thewordpainter 16y ago
    i might concur with that sentiment...but i think facebook is not the best example. their upside is still tremendous, as they haven't fully exploited their ad revenue (which is better positioned than google imo)
    - jdp23 16y ago
      Facebook does have tremendous potential upside (as well as significant risks). But it's really hard for me to see any reason their valuation would increased by 30% in the last few weeks.