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If you're changing the scroll direction, you're not moving, you're trying to recreate your MacOS experience on Windows, and it isn't surprising that didn't go w

If you're changing the scroll direction, you're not moving, you're trying to recreate your MacOS experience on Windows, and it isn't surprising that didn't go well.

klodolph 7y ago
It's cheap to change a configuration setting. It's expensive to rewire habit.
- diminoten 7y ago
  It's cheap but crippling.
wlesieutre 7y ago
I used to have a Surface Pro and it had the option for changing the scroll direction. From a quick google, Microsoft has supported this since at least 2013: https://tablets.gadgethacks.com/how-to/reverse-scrolling-direction-your-microsoft-surfaces-trackpad-windows-8-1-0149145/ https://tablets.gadgethacks.com/how-to/reverse-scrolling-dir... But it was a feature limited to their own devices, and was set via a special Trackpad Settings app that you had to download from the Windows Store, not a standard part of the OS. Which is a pretty good example of why I don't use Windows much anymore.
- hermitdev 7y ago
  What does changing the scroll direction do? If you physically scroll on the trackpad horizontally, does it scroll vertically and visa versa? Not familiar with it, so curiously asking.
  - saratogacx 7y ago
    Think of it like a phone vs a scroll bar. Which option is "correct" is largely a result of personal preference. On a phone, you drag the page so when your finger moves up, you are scrolling down. MacOS has had this be the standard for a long time. Changing the direction makes touch scroll act like you're click-dragging on a scroll bar. when your finger moves down, you scroll down.
  - wlesieutre 7y ago
    It inverts the direction (up swaps with down and left swaps with right) from the previous trackpad scrolling behavior. Before 10.7, the scroll behavior acts like you've grabbed the scroll bar and your fingers drag it, so moving your fingers down makes the scroll grip move down and the page content move up. Moving your fingers left makes the scroll grip move left and the page content move right. The scrolling paradigm is that your fingers grab the viewport and move it with respect to the content. In 10.7 and later, it instead acts as though your fingers are grabbing the content and moving it around within a stationary viewport. So moving your fingers up pushes the content upward. So the scroll interaction is like the direct interaction on a touchscreen, but via a trackpad instead.
NeoBasilisk 7y ago
I was scared to ask what this was even referring to
- wlesieutre 7y ago
  Apple calls this setting "Scroll direction: Natural" and describes it as "Content tracks finger movement." That's been their default since back in 2011, and although a lot of people disabled it at the time I definitely prefer this mode of scroll interaction. It's more direct and is consistent across all the gadgets I use. It acts like you're grabbing the content and moving it around, rather than grabbing a scroll indicator at the side of the page and pushing that up or down. Especially when you factor in other gestures like pinch to zoom with multitouch trackpads, it now very weird to turn this off. For zoom, it feels like you're grabbing the content, but then when you pan suddenly you're grabbing the viewport instead? Next time you're on a Mac, open up Maps and try it both ways. The fact that grabbing content this way feels natural may have a bit to do with Apple having large, smooth, and very responsive trackpads. YMMV on other hardware.
  - mynegation 7y ago
    I tried it both ways and switched to the traditional scrolling. Changing the default once is a small and one time price to pay vs changing the decades of ingrained habits. I don’t ever touch laptop screen even if it is touch enabled. To me mouse is strictly superior to touchpad which is superior to touchscreen and keyboard - outside of operations that require precise positioning on the surface of the screen - is superior to pretty much everything. I thought about why I prefer things this way and decided that it is about travel time. With a touch screen if you want to love from a to b your finger has to travel all the way, whereas mouse can be tuned for maximal sensitivity. And for operations where you can use a keyboard shortcut the interaction time is even more immediate.
    - wlesieutre 7y ago
      I like both depending on context. CAD and gaming, definitely a mouse. But for general use I like the trackpad better. Scrolling is smoother and Apple's multitouch gestures for window/desktop management are really fast and natural. Once upon a time I had an 8 button mouse with several of the buttons bound to Exposé functions, but I don't think I'd go back to that from Apple's trackpads.
dpkonofa 7y ago
How is scroll direction, in any way, restricted to a MacOS experience when Windows has had the option for years? I also have the scroll direction set that way because it makes more sense for me when I use the touch screen. It's one of many ways that the UI on Apple devices makes a lot of sense but I don't see why that's somehow a "MacOS experience". Nonsense.

If you're changing the scroll direction, you're not moving, you're trying to recreate your MacOS experience on Windows, and it isn't surprising that didn't go well.

klodolph 7y ago

It's cheap to change a configuration setting. It's expensive to rewire habit.

diminoten 7y ago
It's cheap but crippling.

wlesieutre 7y ago

I used to have a Surface Pro and it had the option for changing the scroll direction. From a quick google, Microsoft has supported this since at least 2013: https://tablets.gadgethacks.com/how-to/reverse-scrolling-direction-your-microsoft-surfaces-trackpad-windows-8-1-0149145/ https://tablets.gadgethacks.com/how-to/reverse-scrolling-dir... But it was a feature limited to their own devices, and was set via a special Trackpad Settings app that you had to download from the Windows Store, not a standard part of the OS. Which is a pretty good example of why I don't use Windows much anymore.

hermitdev 7y ago
What does changing the scroll direction do? If you physically scroll on the trackpad horizontally, does it scroll vertically and visa versa? Not familiar with it, so curiously asking.
- saratogacx 7y ago
  Think of it like a phone vs a scroll bar. Which option is "correct" is largely a result of personal preference. On a phone, you drag the page so when your finger moves up, you are scrolling down. MacOS has had this be the standard for a long time. Changing the direction makes touch scroll act like you're click-dragging on a scroll bar. when your finger moves down, you scroll down.
- wlesieutre 7y ago
  It inverts the direction (up swaps with down and left swaps with right) from the previous trackpad scrolling behavior. Before 10.7, the scroll behavior acts like you've grabbed the scroll bar and your fingers drag it, so moving your fingers down makes the scroll grip move down and the page content move up. Moving your fingers left makes the scroll grip move left and the page content move right. The scrolling paradigm is that your fingers grab the viewport and move it with respect to the content. In 10.7 and later, it instead acts as though your fingers are grabbing the content and moving it around within a stationary viewport. So moving your fingers up pushes the content upward. So the scroll interaction is like the direct interaction on a touchscreen, but via a trackpad instead.

NeoBasilisk 7y ago

I was scared to ask what this was even referring to

wlesieutre 7y ago
Apple calls this setting "Scroll direction: Natural" and describes it as "Content tracks finger movement." That's been their default since back in 2011, and although a lot of people disabled it at the time I definitely prefer this mode of scroll interaction. It's more direct and is consistent across all the gadgets I use. It acts like you're grabbing the content and moving it around, rather than grabbing a scroll indicator at the side of the page and pushing that up or down. Especially when you factor in other gestures like pinch to zoom with multitouch trackpads, it now very weird to turn this off. For zoom, it feels like you're grabbing the content, but then when you pan suddenly you're grabbing the viewport instead? Next time you're on a Mac, open up Maps and try it both ways. The fact that grabbing content this way feels natural may have a bit to do with Apple having large, smooth, and very responsive trackpads. YMMV on other hardware.
- mynegation 7y ago
  I tried it both ways and switched to the traditional scrolling. Changing the default once is a small and one time price to pay vs changing the decades of ingrained habits. I don’t ever touch laptop screen even if it is touch enabled. To me mouse is strictly superior to touchpad which is superior to touchscreen and keyboard - outside of operations that require precise positioning on the surface of the screen - is superior to pretty much everything. I thought about why I prefer things this way and decided that it is about travel time. With a touch screen if you want to love from a to b your finger has to travel all the way, whereas mouse can be tuned for maximal sensitivity. And for operations where you can use a keyboard shortcut the interaction time is even more immediate.
  - wlesieutre 7y ago
    I like both depending on context. CAD and gaming, definitely a mouse. But for general use I like the trackpad better. Scrolling is smoother and Apple's multitouch gestures for window/desktop management are really fast and natural. Once upon a time I had an 8 button mouse with several of the buttons bound to Exposé functions, but I don't think I'd go back to that from Apple's trackpads.

dpkonofa 7y ago

How is scroll direction, in any way, restricted to a MacOS experience when Windows has had the option for years? I also have the scroll direction set that way because it makes more sense for me when I use the touch screen. It's one of many ways that the UI on Apple devices makes a lot of sense but I don't see why that's somehow a "MacOS experience". Nonsense.