5 ms·

Unions & guilds also serve to keep other workers out There are laws that work has to be assigned to union shops, etc

by ap3 7y ago

bobthepanda 7y ago
That's not really a function of the union itself, that's a function of an abusable political system. The other side of the same coin is, for example, ISP local monopoly laws.
- pessimizer 7y ago
  It's more a function of a state or municipality's negotiation with a particular union, and can be a rational decision for a municipality to make. The choice is between hiring only union people, or not being able to hire any union people.
  - bobthepanda 7y ago
    You could say that for ISP laws as well. "It's more a function of a state or municipality's negotiation with a ISP, and can be a rational decision for a municipality to make. The choice is between having an ISP/good broadband or not having one at all." The point is that the mere existence of a union is not a sufficient condition for union-only laws; unions exist in places where such laws don't exist. As an argument against unions this is a slippery slope fallacy.
- starik36 7y ago
  Nonetheless, this has been done in many places and it led to ridiculous results. For instance, if you have a booth at a convention center in Las Vegas somewhere, just try carrying your own box from your car to your booth. Just try! You will immediately get screamed at that it's a union job.
  - bobthepanda 7y ago
    Sure, but you can't attribute that to unions and say that's a universal negative effect of unions, the same way that you can't say knives are universally bad because they've been used to stab people in the past.
    - starik36 7y ago
      This is an example of how it specifically is. The deal/law with the city/state/municipality/whatever is that they can't hire someone who's not associated with the union. That results in ridiculous shenanigans I just described.
kiliantics 7y ago
This is like copyleft software licencing. The point being that it is meant to encourage more unions and discourage exploitative labour practices.

Unions & guilds also serve to keep other workers out There are laws that work has to be assigned to union shops, etc

by ap3 7y ago

Unions & guilds also serve to keep other workers out There are laws that work has to be assigned to union shops, etc

That's not really a function of the union itself, that's a function of an abusable political system. The other side of the same coin is, for example, ISP local monopoly laws.

pessimizer 7y ago
It's more a function of a state or municipality's negotiation with a particular union, and can be a rational decision for a municipality to make. The choice is between hiring only union people, or not being able to hire any union people.
- bobthepanda 7y ago
  You could say that for ISP laws as well. "It's more a function of a state or municipality's negotiation with a ISP, and can be a rational decision for a municipality to make. The choice is between having an ISP/good broadband or not having one at all." The point is that the mere existence of a union is not a sufficient condition for union-only laws; unions exist in places where such laws don't exist. As an argument against unions this is a slippery slope fallacy.
starik36 7y ago
Nonetheless, this has been done in many places and it led to ridiculous results. For instance, if you have a booth at a convention center in Las Vegas somewhere, just try carrying your own box from your car to your booth. Just try! You will immediately get screamed at that it's a union job.
- bobthepanda 7y ago
  Sure, but you can't attribute that to unions and say that's a universal negative effect of unions, the same way that you can't say knives are universally bad because they've been used to stab people in the past.
  - starik36 7y ago
    This is an example of how it specifically is. The deal/law with the city/state/municipality/whatever is that they can't hire someone who's not associated with the union. That results in ridiculous shenanigans I just described.

kiliantics 7y ago

This is like copyleft software licencing. The point being that it is meant to encourage more unions and discourage exploitative labour practices.