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But who decides and points out what should be removed. What is “far right” from the point of view from someone who is “far left”? It began with Alex Jones and

But who decides and points out what should be removed. What is “far right” from the point of view from someone who is “far left”? It began with Alex Jones and that kinda made sense but now the same people and institutions are asking for the head of individuals like Phillip DeFranco. The thing about censorship is that it never stops where you think it should.

munificent 7y ago
> it never stops where you think it should. Friendly reminder that "slippery slope" is a fallacy. 100% censorship is obviously bad. It remains to be shown that 0.1% censorship inevitably leads to it.
- captainredbeard 7y ago
  Fallacies are sometimes correct, e.g. “with this therefore because of this” isn’t a bad starting point when triaging. Relying upon a fallacy as your sole argument is a problem.
- mar77i 7y ago
  Speaking of fallacies... Beware of potential recursion. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fallacy_fallacy https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fallacy_fallacy
- harimau777 7y ago
  It is a fallacy to say that the slippery slope will always occur. However, that does not mean that it is invalid to argue that in a given situation a slippery slope is likely to occur. In cases such as this I think we can reasonably assume that the "never" in "it never stops where you think it should" is not meant to be taken literally but is instead being used as a figure of speech for "very unlikely".
- all2 7y ago
  A logical fallacy, sure, but in terms of political ideologues "a little at a time" is a methodology for making massive changes. See "Rules for Radicals" and the Hegelian Dialectic. Waving your hand and declaring "Fallacy!" isn't really a refutation. It's a cheap way to avoid actually addressing the argument.
- DuskStar 7y ago
  > Friendly reminder that "slippery slope" is a fallacy. It's a fallacy when there isn't a plausible mechanism that allows each step along a path to make future steps easier. Lots of things actually are slippery slopes. Censorship is almost certainly one of those things. From a comment I made last week regarding YouTube's "let's ban hacking videos" decision: > ... "slippery slope" holds when each change makes it easier to enact further change in the same direction, and that seems to be the case here. "censor CP" + "censor porn" is an easier sell than the original "censor CP" step was, thanks to infrastructure already being in place. Adding copyright on top of that was easier still. And then violent content, and then aid to terrorism, and then politics we don't like, and gun repair videos, and ammo reloading, and...
misterdoubt 7y ago
What? Who is "asking for the head of" Philip DeFranco?
klyrs 7y ago
> ...now the same people and institutions are asking for the head of individuals like Phillip DeFranco. I'm fairly lefty, and haven't heard of this Phillip DeFranco before. Surely if I consult my biased google bubble, it will show me the dirt on him? Well, not really: > “Hey, writer here,” Roose responded. “This collage is just a sample from his viewing history. Some far-right, some not.” [1] And reading the original NYT article... they aren't asking for anybody's head. And this is where it gets really interesting from a free speech perspective. Phillip got offended because he was in a collage of somebody's viewing history. He might have been a step along somebody's slippery slope, whose politics are/were too extreme for his comfort -- or it might just be correlation without causation. The article didn't dig into Phillip and denounce him. In fact, the thrust of the NYT article is that YouTube's recommendations take folks from moderate content, and send them on a spiral to more extreme content. You're free to describe all of that as 'asking for heads,' but that really doesn't seem to be the case here. [1] https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/youtuber-philip-defranco-calls-out-new-york-times-labeling-far-right-699753 https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/youtuber-philip-defran...
- stcredzero 7y ago
  You're free to describe all of that as 'asking for heads,' but that really doesn't seem to be the case here. It's a staple of the Far Left in 2019, to vilify purely through association. For example, every time I've asked for proof that Tim Pool is "Alt-Right," I've only ever received vilification through association as "proof." The same pseudo logic is used to claim that Ben Shapiro (a devout yamaka wearing adherent of Judaism and arguably a top target of the Alt Right) is "Alt-Right." In fact, the thrust of the NYT article is that YouTube's recommendations take folks from moderate content, and send them on a spiral to more extreme content. As far as I can tell, this is just more of the tactic of moving the Overton Window left, by re-labeling the center as "Far Right." It's dishonest and manipulative. I say this as a lifelong Democratic voter and someone who tests center-left on the Political Compass test.

munificent 7y ago

> it never stops where you think it should. Friendly reminder that "slippery slope" is a fallacy. 100% censorship is obviously bad. It remains to be shown that 0.1% censorship inevitably leads to it.

captainredbeard 7y ago
Fallacies are sometimes correct, e.g. “with this therefore because of this” isn’t a bad starting point when triaging. Relying upon a fallacy as your sole argument is a problem.
mar77i 7y ago
Speaking of fallacies... Beware of potential recursion. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fallacy_fallacy https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fallacy_fallacy
harimau777 7y ago
It is a fallacy to say that the slippery slope will always occur. However, that does not mean that it is invalid to argue that in a given situation a slippery slope is likely to occur. In cases such as this I think we can reasonably assume that the "never" in "it never stops where you think it should" is not meant to be taken literally but is instead being used as a figure of speech for "very unlikely".
all2 7y ago
A logical fallacy, sure, but in terms of political ideologues "a little at a time" is a methodology for making massive changes. See "Rules for Radicals" and the Hegelian Dialectic. Waving your hand and declaring "Fallacy!" isn't really a refutation. It's a cheap way to avoid actually addressing the argument.
DuskStar 7y ago
> Friendly reminder that "slippery slope" is a fallacy. It's a fallacy when there isn't a plausible mechanism that allows each step along a path to make future steps easier. Lots of things actually are slippery slopes. Censorship is almost certainly one of those things. From a comment I made last week regarding YouTube's "let's ban hacking videos" decision: > ... "slippery slope" holds when each change makes it easier to enact further change in the same direction, and that seems to be the case here. "censor CP" + "censor porn" is an easier sell than the original "censor CP" step was, thanks to infrastructure already being in place. Adding copyright on top of that was easier still. And then violent content, and then aid to terrorism, and then politics we don't like, and gun repair videos, and ammo reloading, and...

misterdoubt 7y ago

What? Who is "asking for the head of" Philip DeFranco?

klyrs 7y ago

> ...now the same people and institutions are asking for the head of individuals like Phillip DeFranco. I'm fairly lefty, and haven't heard of this Phillip DeFranco before. Surely if I consult my biased google bubble, it will show me the dirt on him? Well, not really: > “Hey, writer here,” Roose responded. “This collage is just a sample from his viewing history. Some far-right, some not.” [1] And reading the original NYT article... they aren't asking for anybody's head. And this is where it gets really interesting from a free speech perspective. Phillip got offended because he was in a collage of somebody's viewing history. He might have been a step along somebody's slippery slope, whose politics are/were too extreme for his comfort -- or it might just be correlation without causation. The article didn't dig into Phillip and denounce him. In fact, the thrust of the NYT article is that YouTube's recommendations take folks from moderate content, and send them on a spiral to more extreme content. You're free to describe all of that as 'asking for heads,' but that really doesn't seem to be the case here. [1] https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/youtuber-philip-defranco-calls-out-new-york-times-labeling-far-right-699753 https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/youtuber-philip-defran...

stcredzero 7y ago
You're free to describe all of that as 'asking for heads,' but that really doesn't seem to be the case here. It's a staple of the Far Left in 2019, to vilify purely through association. For example, every time I've asked for proof that Tim Pool is "Alt-Right," I've only ever received vilification through association as "proof." The same pseudo logic is used to claim that Ben Shapiro (a devout yamaka wearing adherent of Judaism and arguably a top target of the Alt Right) is "Alt-Right." In fact, the thrust of the NYT article is that YouTube's recommendations take folks from moderate content, and send them on a spiral to more extreme content. As far as I can tell, this is just more of the tactic of moving the Overton Window left, by re-labeling the center as "Far Right." It's dishonest and manipulative. I say this as a lifelong Democratic voter and someone who tests center-left on the Political Compass test.