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Tech unions are a way for bureaucrats to take a tax off the backs of hard working tech workers with no benefits. I am well off, have a flexible work life balan

Tech unions are a way for bureaucrats to take a tax off the backs of hard working tech workers with no benefits. I am well off, have a flexible work life balance, and I enjoy my job. There is nothing that a union would bring to the table for me. If there was a union in Silicon Valley in the early 80s, we would be no where close to where we are today. Look at the stark difference between a Silicon Valley worker vs someone working at Boeing or other unionized shops.

rexpop 7y ago
> Look at the stark difference between a Silicon Valley worker vs someone working at Boeing This is a dishonest comparison for two reasons: (1) it does not cite any of the differences, leaving us to assume your point, and (2) it ascribes the alleged difference to one of many factors. > I am well off. This only means that you are upper-caste, in the global caste system. > The core tenet of “free trade,” the globalized capitalism that has dominated the world since the end of the Cold War, is that capital should be able to move freely across borders, while labor and surplus humanity are constrained by them. The state’s primary role—increasingly, its only role—is to police the interior and guard the border. Citizenship has become the primary determinant in a multi-layered global caste system. -- No Wall They Can Build (https://crimethinc.com/books/no-wall-they-can-build https://crimethinc.com/books/no-wall-they-can-build) It may mean that you do not stand to gain in obvious ways from the collectivization of your industry, but I suspect that there are many benefits you're not considering. In my thinking, nearly all anxiety, social friction, dietary and health problems arise from the alienating social relations our vocations foist upon us. If you "enjoy [your] job," but sometimes lie awake at night fearful of global warming, nuclear war, or an impending divorce, you should consider the ways your economic and political systems have failed to accommodate you. If you have diabetes from soda, and work for a software company who does business with pepsi's shareholders, your job is a thread in the noose around our own neck. If you have back pain from sitting in chairs all day, and infrequent visits to invigorating wilderness terrain, your job is a thread in the noose around our own neck. If you're balking at the cost of your child's education, anxious about its quality, and employed by a firm represented in their institution's endowment fund, your job is a thread in the noose around our own neck. If your employer is financially connected to any polluting organization, your job is a thread in the noose around our own neck. If your employer is financially connected to any gentrifying organization, your job is a thread in the noose around our own neck. If your employer is financially connected to ICE/CBP who're ramping up a campaign of black mariahs and domestic "undocumented" sweeps into detention centers, your job is a thread in the noose around our own neck. If your neighbor is under-educated, or under-vaccinated, and your employers' profits are going to foreign shareholders instead of local schools and medical services, your job is a thread in the noose around our own neck. If you constrain your vocation's impact to so few criteria, you will never consider workplace organizing a viable lever over the conditions of your life. If, on the other hand, you do a proper accounting of the investment you're putting into your career, and look at the inadequacy of its compensation to quell the myriad disorders about your community, then you'll start to recognize how under-paid you are. It's not against your interest to cut the threads in the noose around your neck. You hold at least one such thread in your hands, and spend 40 hours a week strengthening it.
- docker_up 7y ago
  I believe people are different and there needs to be differentiation between those that are more skilled than those that are less skilled. I support that more skilled people getting paid more than those that are less skilled. I think it's fundamentally fair. In Silicon Valley, most tech jobs are not nooses around anyone's neck. And that's a great environment to live in that would have been ruined by unions. In fact, things like progress would have been thwarted by greedy unions that slow everyone down. I don't believe that seniority deserves more rewards than younger people. I believe the best person should win. If I can't compete anymore, I'm okay with being out of a job. As I hit 50, I'm aware that my skills are getting out of date but it's fair. I would rather live in a fair environment where I'm out of a job because I'm not as skilled than others rather live in a blunted, slow, environment where union execs make money off my back for decades and decades.
  - moate 7y ago
    >>I think it's fundamentally fair. That's the crux of the disagreement here. You assume that something fair is happening, and others don't. A meritocracy sounds great, but I've yet to see one actually implemented at any scale. Or rather, the skills that get rewarded don't feel like the skills that are actually important to the job (networking and personal skills often times up your earning ability more than your coding abilities). >>I would rather live in a fair environment where I'm out of a job... Sure you would, because you believe that you'd be able to find another job. And as long as that thought exists, you can rationalize that management is "fair" and a meritocracy is in place. Some of us think the system is broken and benefits the few at the expense of the many, and that doesn't seem "fair" to us.
    - docker_up 7y ago
      There isn't a true meritocracy but it's "good enough" in Silicon Valley. Nothing will be perfect but what we have right now is better than any union. Unions will select for those workers with more seniority which is objectively worse than selecting for those with more skill. >>Sure you would, because you believe that you'd be able to find another job. No, I don't. I honestly believe that if I can't keep up I don't deserve a job. Period, end of story. >> Some of us think the system is broken and benefits the few at the expense of the many, and that doesn't seem "fair" to us. I don't see this in Silicon Valley at all. I think underperforming tech workers deserve to not reap the same benefits as the performing engineers. The bar keeps rising every year, I know this because I've been here 25 years, but it's fairly applied, or at least as fair as can possibly be applied.

rexpop 7y ago

> Look at the stark difference between a Silicon Valley worker vs someone working at Boeing This is a dishonest comparison for two reasons: (1) it does not cite any of the differences, leaving us to assume your point, and (2) it ascribes the alleged difference to one of many factors. > I am well off. This only means that you are upper-caste, in the global caste system. > The core tenet of “free trade,” the globalized capitalism that has dominated the world since the end of the Cold War, is that capital should be able to move freely across borders, while labor and surplus humanity are constrained by them. The state’s primary role—increasingly, its only role—is to police the interior and guard the border. Citizenship has become the primary determinant in a multi-layered global caste system. -- No Wall They Can Build (https://crimethinc.com/books/no-wall-they-can-build https://crimethinc.com/books/no-wall-they-can-build) It may mean that you do not stand to gain in obvious ways from the collectivization of your industry, but I suspect that there are many benefits you're not considering. In my thinking, nearly all anxiety, social friction, dietary and health problems arise from the alienating social relations our vocations foist upon us. If you "enjoy [your] job," but sometimes lie awake at night fearful of global warming, nuclear war, or an impending divorce, you should consider the ways your economic and political systems have failed to accommodate you. If you have diabetes from soda, and work for a software company who does business with pepsi's shareholders, your job is a thread in the noose around our own neck. If you have back pain from sitting in chairs all day, and infrequent visits to invigorating wilderness terrain, your job is a thread in the noose around our own neck. If you're balking at the cost of your child's education, anxious about its quality, and employed by a firm represented in their institution's endowment fund, your job is a thread in the noose around our own neck. If your employer is financially connected to any polluting organization, your job is a thread in the noose around our own neck. If your employer is financially connected to any gentrifying organization, your job is a thread in the noose around our own neck. If your employer is financially connected to ICE/CBP who're ramping up a campaign of black mariahs and domestic "undocumented" sweeps into detention centers, your job is a thread in the noose around our own neck. If your neighbor is under-educated, or under-vaccinated, and your employers' profits are going to foreign shareholders instead of local schools and medical services, your job is a thread in the noose around our own neck. If you constrain your vocation's impact to so few criteria, you will never consider workplace organizing a viable lever over the conditions of your life. If, on the other hand, you do a proper accounting of the investment you're putting into your career, and look at the inadequacy of its compensation to quell the myriad disorders about your community, then you'll start to recognize how under-paid you are. It's not against your interest to cut the threads in the noose around your neck. You hold at least one such thread in your hands, and spend 40 hours a week strengthening it.

docker_up 7y ago
I believe people are different and there needs to be differentiation between those that are more skilled than those that are less skilled. I support that more skilled people getting paid more than those that are less skilled. I think it's fundamentally fair. In Silicon Valley, most tech jobs are not nooses around anyone's neck. And that's a great environment to live in that would have been ruined by unions. In fact, things like progress would have been thwarted by greedy unions that slow everyone down. I don't believe that seniority deserves more rewards than younger people. I believe the best person should win. If I can't compete anymore, I'm okay with being out of a job. As I hit 50, I'm aware that my skills are getting out of date but it's fair. I would rather live in a fair environment where I'm out of a job because I'm not as skilled than others rather live in a blunted, slow, environment where union execs make money off my back for decades and decades.
- moate 7y ago
  >>I think it's fundamentally fair. That's the crux of the disagreement here. You assume that something fair is happening, and others don't. A meritocracy sounds great, but I've yet to see one actually implemented at any scale. Or rather, the skills that get rewarded don't feel like the skills that are actually important to the job (networking and personal skills often times up your earning ability more than your coding abilities). >>I would rather live in a fair environment where I'm out of a job... Sure you would, because you believe that you'd be able to find another job. And as long as that thought exists, you can rationalize that management is "fair" and a meritocracy is in place. Some of us think the system is broken and benefits the few at the expense of the many, and that doesn't seem "fair" to us.
  - docker_up 7y ago
    There isn't a true meritocracy but it's "good enough" in Silicon Valley. Nothing will be perfect but what we have right now is better than any union. Unions will select for those workers with more seniority which is objectively worse than selecting for those with more skill. >>Sure you would, because you believe that you'd be able to find another job. No, I don't. I honestly believe that if I can't keep up I don't deserve a job. Period, end of story. >> Some of us think the system is broken and benefits the few at the expense of the many, and that doesn't seem "fair" to us. I don't see this in Silicon Valley at all. I think underperforming tech workers deserve to not reap the same benefits as the performing engineers. The bar keeps rising every year, I know this because I've been here 25 years, but it's fairly applied, or at least as fair as can possibly be applied.