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==We can form a union when we need to form a union.== In my 35 years of life, it has become harder to start a union, so it isn't out of the question that it be

==We can form a union when we need to form a union.== In my 35 years of life, it has become harder to start a union, so it isn't out of the question that it becomes harder and harder to start a union when software engineers "need to". There's no guarantee that what exists today will exist tomorrow.

dymk 7y ago
I agree with that, but I don't agree with the underlying notion of us ever needing to unionize. Do people actually think that software engineering is going to become a job that isn't skilled, and isn't sought after?
- moorhosj 7y ago
  ==Do people actually think that software engineering is going to become a job that isn't skilled, and isn't sought after?== I'm not sure why you would be so sure it wouldn't. Are the software engineers of today truly that different from the machinists of yesterday? If you believe in the free market, then it is elementary that more people will flood into these careers which will lower the wages and diminish the bargaining power of existing software engineers.
  - dymk 7y ago
    If your argument about it being elementary for people to flood into the career were true, then why have far older and desirable professions like law and medicine continued to be incredibly well paying? Software is hard, humans have a hard time doing hard things, that's why we get paid more.
    - moorhosj 7y ago
      ==then why have far older and desirable professions like law and medicine continued to be incredibly well paying?== These are actually two perfect examples to illustrate my point. Both industries are represented by organizations that systematically make it harder for more people to enter the profession (AMA for medicine and Bar Association for legal). They have eschewed the free market in favor of regulatory capture in order to maintain their market advantage. ==Software is hard, humans have a hard time doing hard things, that's why we get paid more.== Same could have been said of building cars and planes 50 years ago.
      - dymk 7y ago
        == Same could have been said of building cars and planes 50 years ago. == ...and automotive and aerospace engineers are still paid quite well.
        Apocryphon 7y ago
        Looks like they've got a union: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Professional_Engineering_Employees_in_Aerospace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Professional_Engine...

dymk 7y ago

I agree with that, but I don't agree with the underlying notion of us ever needing to unionize. Do people actually think that software engineering is going to become a job that isn't skilled, and isn't sought after?

moorhosj 7y ago
==Do people actually think that software engineering is going to become a job that isn't skilled, and isn't sought after?== I'm not sure why you would be so sure it wouldn't. Are the software engineers of today truly that different from the machinists of yesterday? If you believe in the free market, then it is elementary that more people will flood into these careers which will lower the wages and diminish the bargaining power of existing software engineers.
- dymk 7y ago
  If your argument about it being elementary for people to flood into the career were true, then why have far older and desirable professions like law and medicine continued to be incredibly well paying? Software is hard, humans have a hard time doing hard things, that's why we get paid more.
  - moorhosj 7y ago
    ==then why have far older and desirable professions like law and medicine continued to be incredibly well paying?== These are actually two perfect examples to illustrate my point. Both industries are represented by organizations that systematically make it harder for more people to enter the profession (AMA for medicine and Bar Association for legal). They have eschewed the free market in favor of regulatory capture in order to maintain their market advantage. ==Software is hard, humans have a hard time doing hard things, that's why we get paid more.== Same could have been said of building cars and planes 50 years ago.
    - dymk 7y ago
      == Same could have been said of building cars and planes 50 years ago. == ...and automotive and aerospace engineers are still paid quite well.
      - Apocryphon 7y ago
        Looks like they've got a union: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Professional_Engineering_Employees_in_Aerospace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Professional_Engine...