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“In other cases, highly compensated engineers may see themselves as independent operators who have plenty of leverage on their own and thus do not need to join

“In other cases, highly compensated engineers may see themselves as independent operators who have plenty of leverage on their own and thus do not need to join a union effort.” This is definitely my feeling. When I can just open up LinkedIn and browse all the unsolicited interview requests I get, I don’t end up feeling like I really need a union to protect my current job - I can always just leave and go somewhere else if I’m unhappy. That said, if someone asked me to vote for it I might do that, but I wouldn’t put the effort into organizing myself.

sjg007 7y ago
In the long term, you may not want to switch companies. It forces upon you a whole lot of unexpected costs, even accounting for a higher pay.
- ivl 7y ago
  And staying at the same employer indefinitely is a sort of soul crushing purgatory in my mind. Software work is one of the few industries where you can completely change the business problem you're addressing by changing employers without your skill set being irrelevant. I love the fact that if I grow tired of the industry the company I'm working at is servicing, I can easily move to another employer with a totally different business problem.
  - sjg007 7y ago
    Having a union doesn't change that option for you.
    - zaroth 7y ago
      It certainly would when the union implements seniority based protocols.
      - sjg007 7y ago
        Good thing you could choose to work somewhere else then.
onion2k 7y ago
I can always just leave and go somewhere else if I’m unhappy. You think you can, and hopefully you actually can, but your employer might have other ideas... https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-google-others-settle-anti-poaching-lawsuit-for-415-million/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-google-others-settle-anti-po... I'll expand on that slightly - the point is that employers are not beyond illegally getting together to restrict our access to alternative jobs. While it feels like we can just get a new role with a couple of phone calls, we might not be getting the best deal for ourselves regardless.
- walshemj 7y ago
  Right now in the longest stock market boom you might - might not always be able to do that.
- javagram 7y ago
  Yeah, that was pretty terrible. Good news is that the government found it out and put a stop to it.
rexpop 7y ago
> I can always just leave and go somewhere else if I’m unhappy. A common refrain, and not entirely incorrect. It's true that I personally lean on marketplace bargaining power when making politically risky workplace decisions, e.g. pushing for a product or process change. It has its limits, however, as I've lightly addressed in another comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20384306 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20384306
- javagram 7y ago
  Yes, absolutely. And if the amount of bargaining power I felt I have begins to change, I might feel more strongly about being in a union and regaining some of that power through collective bargaining. Right now, I’m not on a visa and the job market only seems to get hotter and hotter, so for now I feel pretty good about it. Definitely recognize that could change.

sjg007 7y ago

In the long term, you may not want to switch companies. It forces upon you a whole lot of unexpected costs, even accounting for a higher pay.

ivl 7y ago
And staying at the same employer indefinitely is a sort of soul crushing purgatory in my mind. Software work is one of the few industries where you can completely change the business problem you're addressing by changing employers without your skill set being irrelevant. I love the fact that if I grow tired of the industry the company I'm working at is servicing, I can easily move to another employer with a totally different business problem.
- sjg007 7y ago
  Having a union doesn't change that option for you.
  - zaroth 7y ago
    It certainly would when the union implements seniority based protocols.
    - sjg007 7y ago
      Good thing you could choose to work somewhere else then.

onion2k 7y ago

I can always just leave and go somewhere else if I’m unhappy. You think you can, and hopefully you actually can, but your employer might have other ideas... https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-google-others-settle-anti-poaching-lawsuit-for-415-million/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-google-others-settle-anti-po... I'll expand on that slightly - the point is that employers are not beyond illegally getting together to restrict our access to alternative jobs. While it feels like we can just get a new role with a couple of phone calls, we might not be getting the best deal for ourselves regardless.

walshemj 7y ago
Right now in the longest stock market boom you might - might not always be able to do that.
javagram 7y ago
Yeah, that was pretty terrible. Good news is that the government found it out and put a stop to it.

rexpop 7y ago

> I can always just leave and go somewhere else if I’m unhappy. A common refrain, and not entirely incorrect. It's true that I personally lean on marketplace bargaining power when making politically risky workplace decisions, e.g. pushing for a product or process change. It has its limits, however, as I've lightly addressed in another comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20384306 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20384306

javagram 7y ago
Yes, absolutely. And if the amount of bargaining power I felt I have begins to change, I might feel more strongly about being in a union and regaining some of that power through collective bargaining. Right now, I’m not on a visa and the job market only seems to get hotter and hotter, so for now I feel pretty good about it. Definitely recognize that could change.