4 ms·

> Aside: it is generally considered safer to have the outlets ("receptacles") installed with the ground at the top, but we don't tend to do this in NA because g

> Aside: it is generally considered safer to have the outlets ("receptacles") installed with the ground at the top, but we don't tend to do this in NA because ground at the bottom makes it look like a little face and humans like faces. I'm not sure there's any basis for this. See this article for example: https://www.archtoolbox.com/materials-systems/electrical/groundorientation.html https://www.archtoolbox.com/materials-systems/electrical/gro... The real reason why this was done historically was perhaps due to this: > Back in those days, there were very few plastic faceplates on AC receptacles and switches. They were almost all made of metal. All that holds a faceplate in position is one short screw for an AC receptacle. If the screw loosens and falls out, the faceplate will drop down and short out the two power prongs on anything that is plugged into that outlet. Such accidents used to be commonplace which is why power receptacles were put in upside down. With plastic faceplates it no longer applies. Which is why most newer medical facilities have them in regularly facing. It was done for a reason, but people forgot what that reason is, then myth turned into legend and people kept doing it cargo cult style without knowing why it started ("safer" requires an explanation). The whole "drop a metal tool" justification was likely a rationalization to a practice people didn't understand, but doesn't actually make sense. That all being said, it isn't less safe to put them "upside down." It just might interfere with some consumer electronics that assume a certain orientation (like those plugged in perfume bottles, smart home sensors, or similar).

magduf 7y ago
This is exactly correct, and electrical code still requires the "faces" to be upside-down if the electrical box has a metal faceplate, which is still common in many industrial settings and also house basements. If the faceplate is plastic, it doesn't matter. Also, in many houses you'll see the outlets oriented both ways in living and bedrooms, and there's a reason for this: what you'll see is all the outlets oriented one way (usually with the "face" right-side up), except for one outlet, which is upside-down. That outlet is the one that's controlled by a wall switch, so you're supposed to plug a floor lamp into it, which can then be switched on with the wall switch when you enter the room. Inverting that one outlet makes it much easier to see which outlet you're supposed to use.
- mjevans 7y ago
  This is true, but I really hate this standard. They should use a slightly different face-plate color for both outlet and switch to make it even more obvious.
  - magduf 7y ago
    They can't do that: that would cost a dollar or two extra and would require buying different parts instead of using the exact same part for every outlet/switch in the house.
stordoff 7y ago
From what I've heard (UK), earth at the top is marginally safer as if anything falls on a partially unplugged plug (coin, hairpin, something metal), it will land on the earth rather than directly on the powered pins. Of course, this is also resolved in the UK by insulating the lower portions of the powered pins, so whenever it is powered only insulated area will be visible outside of the socket, so it's something of a moot point.
pixl97 7y ago
I see you've not dropped any kind of conductive flat sheet off a desk and have it land between the plug and socket when installed in the smiley face orientation. Sparks and fire isnt fun.
- Someone1234 7y ago
  That's a contrived problem. It requires the flat conductive sheet to somehow re-orientate itself in the air from horizontal to completely vertical in the two feet between your desk and the top of the plug (unlikely). If this is a problem you regularly encounter, this hack isn't the safe solution, the safe solution is an Recessed outlet/Outlet Cover. That way the metal sheets that assault your outlets cannot hit any of the pins, and you aren't relying on luck for how it will fall/rest after it contacts the ground pin. Most people aren't suffering this issue, so a solution isn't needed.
  - ddingus 7y ago
    It's not about that. It is all about risk mitigation. When building for long term use and safety, scenarios like a short from something falling are designed away. Think super cheap insurance. And liability management. People can perform to code and that compartmentalizes damages and responsibilities. Couple that with licenses and it's all public safety oriented. All of it adds up. Where risk is higher, say in the parent example, yes. By all means use a product intended to manage those risks. Costs are marginal otherwise, might as well take the cheap insurance.
    - Someone1234 7y ago
      > It is all about risk mitigation. When building for long term use and safety, scenarios like a short from something falling are designed away. Then you'd want to install Recessed outlets, Outlet Covers, or GFCI Outlets. Since they're designed to be safer, this simply relies on luck that the conductive object bounces off of the neutral pin and away (which may not occur). Plus the cost isn't free as has been discussed in this thread elsewhere. It breaks a lot of consumer electronics.
linsomniac 7y ago
That all sounds plausible, and I just don't remember where I've heard that "ground up is safer", but I'm also possibly colored by having experienced something falling between a wall wart and the receptacle when I was younger and that left an impression. Ground up wouldn't have helped in this case since the wart was a 2 prong, but it seems like there are opportunities where it could help and few where it hurts... I'm also just a home gamer, though I have done my research via reading relevant parts of the code for wiring and passing inspection on my kitchen remodel including adding circuits, pigtailing my aluminum wired house, etc... It was somewhere in there I came across the "safer, it's code in hospitals" idea. Though my memory is that the hospitals I've seen all had metal faceplates, but that's just from memory. Good counterpoint.

magduf 7y ago

This is exactly correct, and electrical code still requires the "faces" to be upside-down if the electrical box has a metal faceplate, which is still common in many industrial settings and also house basements. If the faceplate is plastic, it doesn't matter. Also, in many houses you'll see the outlets oriented both ways in living and bedrooms, and there's a reason for this: what you'll see is all the outlets oriented one way (usually with the "face" right-side up), except for one outlet, which is upside-down. That outlet is the one that's controlled by a wall switch, so you're supposed to plug a floor lamp into it, which can then be switched on with the wall switch when you enter the room. Inverting that one outlet makes it much easier to see which outlet you're supposed to use.

mjevans 7y ago
This is true, but I really hate this standard. They should use a slightly different face-plate color for both outlet and switch to make it even more obvious.
- magduf 7y ago
  They can't do that: that would cost a dollar or two extra and would require buying different parts instead of using the exact same part for every outlet/switch in the house.

stordoff 7y ago

From what I've heard (UK), earth at the top is marginally safer as if anything falls on a partially unplugged plug (coin, hairpin, something metal), it will land on the earth rather than directly on the powered pins. Of course, this is also resolved in the UK by insulating the lower portions of the powered pins, so whenever it is powered only insulated area will be visible outside of the socket, so it's something of a moot point.

pixl97 7y ago

I see you've not dropped any kind of conductive flat sheet off a desk and have it land between the plug and socket when installed in the smiley face orientation. Sparks and fire isnt fun.

Someone1234 7y ago
That's a contrived problem. It requires the flat conductive sheet to somehow re-orientate itself in the air from horizontal to completely vertical in the two feet between your desk and the top of the plug (unlikely). If this is a problem you regularly encounter, this hack isn't the safe solution, the safe solution is an Recessed outlet/Outlet Cover. That way the metal sheets that assault your outlets cannot hit any of the pins, and you aren't relying on luck for how it will fall/rest after it contacts the ground pin. Most people aren't suffering this issue, so a solution isn't needed.
- ddingus 7y ago
  It's not about that. It is all about risk mitigation. When building for long term use and safety, scenarios like a short from something falling are designed away. Think super cheap insurance. And liability management. People can perform to code and that compartmentalizes damages and responsibilities. Couple that with licenses and it's all public safety oriented. All of it adds up. Where risk is higher, say in the parent example, yes. By all means use a product intended to manage those risks. Costs are marginal otherwise, might as well take the cheap insurance.
  - Someone1234 7y ago
    > It is all about risk mitigation. When building for long term use and safety, scenarios like a short from something falling are designed away. Then you'd want to install Recessed outlets, Outlet Covers, or GFCI Outlets. Since they're designed to be safer, this simply relies on luck that the conductive object bounces off of the neutral pin and away (which may not occur). Plus the cost isn't free as has been discussed in this thread elsewhere. It breaks a lot of consumer electronics.

linsomniac 7y ago

That all sounds plausible, and I just don't remember where I've heard that "ground up is safer", but I'm also possibly colored by having experienced something falling between a wall wart and the receptacle when I was younger and that left an impression. Ground up wouldn't have helped in this case since the wart was a 2 prong, but it seems like there are opportunities where it could help and few where it hurts... I'm also just a home gamer, though I have done my research via reading relevant parts of the code for wiring and passing inspection on my kitchen remodel including adding circuits, pigtailing my aluminum wired house, etc... It was somewhere in there I came across the "safer, it's code in hospitals" idea. Though my memory is that the hospitals I've seen all had metal faceplates, but that's just from memory. Good counterpoint.