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> I also believe pilot error was a significant factor in the crashes, because during the first instance of MCAS malfunction, the pilots dealt with it and landed

> I also believe pilot error was a significant factor in the crashes, because during the first instance of MCAS malfunction, the pilots dealt with it and landed safely, despite not knowing about MCAS. The latter two incidents were not handled properly by the pilots, indicating a gap in training. This sounds disingenuous from my reading of the problem. The pilots were not trained in the new system or even told of its existence. Seems pretty unfair to blame them for not being able to respond correctly within 3 seconds to correct a system that they didn't even know existed and literally makes the plane not respond to pilot input. I think it's amazing that the other crew was able to survive TBH. Didn't they have to pull a fuse?

carlmr 7y ago
https://qz.com/1576597/off-duty-pilot-saved-lion-airs-737-max-the-day-before-its-fatal-flight/ https://qz.com/1576597/off-duty-pilot-saved-lion-airs-737-ma... It was another pilot who was on the flight that knew how to deactivate MCAS.
- brokenmachine 7y ago
  Hardly seems like "pilot error" when the crew that died didn't know how to deactivate a system they were never told existed.
  - WalterBright 7y ago
    It could be deactivated by shutting off the stab trim motors. The switches for it are right there on the center console, and pilots are trained to throw those switches in the event of stab trim runaway. The MCAS failure presented itself as stab trim runaway. It's like if your car engine runs away, you turn off the ignition. It is not necessary to know why it ran away, just that you can shut off the engine. (Which I have had occasion to do.)
    - tigershark 7y ago
      yes, but you forget to mention that before the second crash they actually disabled the stab trim motors and they couldn't manually correct the trim trying to turn the wheel with all their strength so they had to reengage them and that activated again MCAS and puff.. Or are you saying that is their fault because they should have been stronger than that killing machine?

carlmr 7y ago

https://qz.com/1576597/off-duty-pilot-saved-lion-airs-737-max-the-day-before-its-fatal-flight/ https://qz.com/1576597/off-duty-pilot-saved-lion-airs-737-ma... It was another pilot who was on the flight that knew how to deactivate MCAS.

brokenmachine 7y ago
Hardly seems like "pilot error" when the crew that died didn't know how to deactivate a system they were never told existed.
- WalterBright 7y ago
  It could be deactivated by shutting off the stab trim motors. The switches for it are right there on the center console, and pilots are trained to throw those switches in the event of stab trim runaway. The MCAS failure presented itself as stab trim runaway. It's like if your car engine runs away, you turn off the ignition. It is not necessary to know why it ran away, just that you can shut off the engine. (Which I have had occasion to do.)
  - tigershark 7y ago
    yes, but you forget to mention that before the second crash they actually disabled the stab trim motors and they couldn't manually correct the trim trying to turn the wheel with all their strength so they had to reengage them and that activated again MCAS and puff.. Or are you saying that is their fault because they should have been stronger than that killing machine?