4 ms·

What disaster of the Euro?

by MichaelApproved 7y ago

omegaworks 7y ago
Greece forced to swallow austerity, German economic domination of the continent, resurgence of right-wing nationalism.
- FullMetalBitch 7y ago
  Resurgente of right wing nationalism? In Spain it's been alive before they even joined the European Union with regional nationalism (Catalonia nationalism has been always mostly right wing). And besides, during the crash the major resurgence was in the left, extreme-left. Spain, Portugal and Greece's crash were going to happen with or without Euro, the only thing problem is how the Euro afected their recovery. I can tell you Spain hasn't recovered, and won't be, they are still managed by idiots.
  - barry-cotter 7y ago
    > Resurgente of right wing nationalism? In Spain it's been alive before they even joined the European Union with regional nationalism (Catalonia nationalism has been always mostly right wing). Up until recently with the rise of Vox Spain was the only major Western European country without a far right party. Catalan nationalism is marked by its close association with anarchism, syndicalism and willingness to accept any immigrant who’ll speak Catalan and join the fight against the Castilians so on that level at the least it’s not exactly right wing. > And besides, during the crash the major resurgence was in the left, extreme-left. Again, Vox. > Spain, Portugal and Greece's crash were going to happen with or without Euro, the only thing problem is how the Euro afected their recovery. That makes joining the Euro, if not a disaster, a mistake.
    - FullMetalBitch 7y ago
      Vox appeared the other day, everyone began talking about the Spanish crisis as early as 2006 and it began in 2008. Podemos was born in 2014.
BurningFrog 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_debt_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_debt_crisis The root cause is widely agreed to be that putting vastly different economies like Germany and Greece on the same currency without have a unified economic policy etc, made the whole construct a disaster waiting to happen.
barry-cotter 7y ago
If Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece or Spain had retained their own currencies they’d have depreciated substantially, raising the competitiveness of their exports compared to the Northern European countries with sound fiscal policies and integrated trade for whom the Euro made more sense. Joining the Euro was a disastrous decision for Greece. They got under a decade of low borrowing costs and lost huge amounts of autonomy. Spain, Portugal and Italy lost access to their traditional means of dealing with the fact that they’ve grown too expensive to be competitive, devaluation, and they’re not politically capable of labour market reform so their levels of growth are probably permanently lower because they can’t give the whole country a pay cut every ten to twenty years by making imports more expensive, while boosting exports as well. More generally https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_debt_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_debt_crisis > The European debt crisis (often also referred to as the eurozone crisis or the European sovereign debt crisis) is a multi-year debt crisis that has been taking place in the European Union since the end of 2009. Several eurozone member states (Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain and Cyprus) were unable to repay or refinance their government debt or to bail out over-indebted banks under their national supervision without the assistance of third parties like other eurozone countries, the European Central Bank (ECB), or the International Monetary Fund (IMF).
- FullMetalBitch 7y ago
  If Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain weren't managed by idiots no one would be talking about the failures of the Euro.
  - barry-cotter 7y ago
    Of the five only Ireland made a huge unforced error in guaranteeing the banks’ bonds. The other four borrowed money on favourable terms they likely thought they’d be able to pay back given continued economic growth (as did Ireland). They were wrong about the continued economic growth but they weren’t the only ones. Plenty of German banks agreed with them; that’s why they lent them the money. Not being able to reform labour markets in Southern Europe isn’t the mark of idiots. If the voters won’t stand for something it isn’t happening no matter how brilliant the politicians they elect.

What disaster of the Euro?

omegaworks 7y ago

Greece forced to swallow austerity, German economic domination of the continent, resurgence of right-wing nationalism.

FullMetalBitch 7y ago
Resurgente of right wing nationalism? In Spain it's been alive before they even joined the European Union with regional nationalism (Catalonia nationalism has been always mostly right wing). And besides, during the crash the major resurgence was in the left, extreme-left. Spain, Portugal and Greece's crash were going to happen with or without Euro, the only thing problem is how the Euro afected their recovery. I can tell you Spain hasn't recovered, and won't be, they are still managed by idiots.
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  > Resurgente of right wing nationalism? In Spain it's been alive before they even joined the European Union with regional nationalism (Catalonia nationalism has been always mostly right wing). Up until recently with the rise of Vox Spain was the only major Western European country without a far right party. Catalan nationalism is marked by its close association with anarchism, syndicalism and willingness to accept any immigrant who’ll speak Catalan and join the fight against the Castilians so on that level at the least it’s not exactly right wing. > And besides, during the crash the major resurgence was in the left, extreme-left. Again, Vox. > Spain, Portugal and Greece's crash were going to happen with or without Euro, the only thing problem is how the Euro afected their recovery. That makes joining the Euro, if not a disaster, a mistake.
  - FullMetalBitch 7y ago
    Vox appeared the other day, everyone began talking about the Spanish crisis as early as 2006 and it began in 2008. Podemos was born in 2014.

BurningFrog 7y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_debt_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_debt_crisis The root cause is widely agreed to be that putting vastly different economies like Germany and Greece on the same currency without have a unified economic policy etc, made the whole construct a disaster waiting to happen.

barry-cotter 7y ago

If Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece or Spain had retained their own currencies they’d have depreciated substantially, raising the competitiveness of their exports compared to the Northern European countries with sound fiscal policies and integrated trade for whom the Euro made more sense. Joining the Euro was a disastrous decision for Greece. They got under a decade of low borrowing costs and lost huge amounts of autonomy. Spain, Portugal and Italy lost access to their traditional means of dealing with the fact that they’ve grown too expensive to be competitive, devaluation, and they’re not politically capable of labour market reform so their levels of growth are probably permanently lower because they can’t give the whole country a pay cut every ten to twenty years by making imports more expensive, while boosting exports as well. More generally https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_debt_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_debt_crisis > The European debt crisis (often also referred to as the eurozone crisis or the European sovereign debt crisis) is a multi-year debt crisis that has been taking place in the European Union since the end of 2009. Several eurozone member states (Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain and Cyprus) were unable to repay or refinance their government debt or to bail out over-indebted banks under their national supervision without the assistance of third parties like other eurozone countries, the European Central Bank (ECB), or the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

FullMetalBitch 7y ago
If Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain weren't managed by idiots no one would be talking about the failures of the Euro.
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  Of the five only Ireland made a huge unforced error in guaranteeing the banks’ bonds. The other four borrowed money on favourable terms they likely thought they’d be able to pay back given continued economic growth (as did Ireland). They were wrong about the continued economic growth but they weren’t the only ones. Plenty of German banks agreed with them; that’s why they lent them the money. Not being able to reform labour markets in Southern Europe isn’t the mark of idiots. If the voters won’t stand for something it isn’t happening no matter how brilliant the politicians they elect.