4 ms·

These articles are frustrating because they don't take into account the large percentage of the population that doesn't live in a place like New York or Boston.

These articles are frustrating because they don't take into account the large percentage of the population that doesn't live in a place like New York or Boston. Houston would be unbearable in the summer without AC. No one is suggesting we do away with indoor heating.

Swizec 7y ago
People in Spain and the rest of the Mediterranean have managed to live without AC for millenia. Some old houses, centuries old, are cool as a cucumber during some of the worst months of summer. And yet, in my experience, it’s like Americans are allergic to insulation and building houses appropriate to the climate. Something is very weird when houses in SF look just like houses in Portland which look just like houses in every suburban photo of the US I’ve ever seen. In Europe architecture changes with the climate, in the US it doesn’t seem to (or at least I haven’t noticed and please tell me that i’n wrong)
- majewsky 7y ago
  99PI did a wonderful episode on this: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/thermal-delight/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/thermal-delight/ Basically, the US abandoned their regionally different architecture once AC became common.
  - agumonkey 7y ago
    another case of technological dead end
- asdfman123 7y ago
  > Some old houses, centuries old, are cool as a cucumber during some of the worst months of summer. Those places also probably don't routinely hit 90% humidity levels. You sweat profusely even in the shade here (think Florida in the summer if you've ever been). In places as hot an humid as the American south, pretty much everyone gets AC as soon as they can afford to do so. If they do not have AC, it is because they are too poor to afford it. I'm actually kind of a hippie minimalist at heart. I'm willing to give up my car and bike everywhere. I'm willing to go vegan to save the environment. I'd even be willing to crank the AC up to 80 degrees to reduce power consumption. But I would never live in a place with no AC whatsoever, no matter how the building was built. It's one of the last luxuries I'd give up, along with daily showers.
- johnmyleswhite 7y ago
  Not sure if Spain is the best example since AC is already very popular there and growing in popularity: http://www.ine.es/jaxi/Datos.htm?path=/t25/p500/2008/p01/l0/&file=01015c.px http://www.ine.es/jaxi/Datos.htm?path=/t25/p500/2008/p01/l0/...
- plorkyeran 7y ago
  The average temperature in Madrid in July is 9C cooler than in Phoenix. Good insulation would reduce the cooling costs (and it's sort of absurd how many homes in hot areas don't have good insulation), but no amount of insulation will keep a house cool when the ambient temperature doesn't even make it down to 25C at night for a month or longer. Portland and SF have similar climates, so you would expect them to look similar. Portland has rain instead of fog, but both rarely get notably hot or cold.
majewsky 7y ago
How did people get anything done in Houston before ACs became common in the mid 20th century?
- reaperducer 7y ago
  How did people get anything done in Houston before ACs became common in the mid 20th century? Swamp coolers. When I lived in Houston, they were very common. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler
- asdfman123 7y ago
  My dad lived here in the fifties. People used fans and got used to it. You just would sweat a lot. But there's a good argument that AC lead to the rapid growth of a lot of southern and sun-belt cities. I know if it didn't exist, I would take a hard look at living here. https://www.citylab.com/life/2012/06/cities-might-not-exist-without-air-conditioning/2399/ https://www.citylab.com/life/2012/06/cities-might-not-exist-... But really, how would northerners react if the Houston Chronicle wrote an article entitled "Do we really need heating?" suggesting that people get thick blankets and wear warm coats indoors. A few people in the comments might have a few provocative things to say about the kind of lifestyles of people who live up north, and suggest they move to the kind of place that doesn't need extensive heating.
  - eecc 7y ago
    Well, when I was a young sprout we used to use thicker blankets in winter, and that was in Rome, Southern Europe. Today I live in Amsterdam - Northern Europe - and people chill outside bars wearing T-shirts under blazing hot gas heaters... very Titanic IMHO
- derekp7 7y ago
  AC actually opened up the south to office buildings. They most likely wouldn't exist (except where necessary) without it.
  - 7y ago
dang 7y ago
Can you please not post in the flamewar style to HN? Both this and your previous post have been so, and it's a thing we're trying to avoid here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- asdfman123 7y ago
  Fair enough. I rewrote it to be less provocative.

Swizec 7y ago

People in Spain and the rest of the Mediterranean have managed to live without AC for millenia. Some old houses, centuries old, are cool as a cucumber during some of the worst months of summer. And yet, in my experience, it’s like Americans are allergic to insulation and building houses appropriate to the climate. Something is very weird when houses in SF look just like houses in Portland which look just like houses in every suburban photo of the US I’ve ever seen. In Europe architecture changes with the climate, in the US it doesn’t seem to (or at least I haven’t noticed and please tell me that i’n wrong)

majewsky 7y ago
99PI did a wonderful episode on this: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/thermal-delight/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/thermal-delight/ Basically, the US abandoned their regionally different architecture once AC became common.
- agumonkey 7y ago
  another case of technological dead end
asdfman123 7y ago
> Some old houses, centuries old, are cool as a cucumber during some of the worst months of summer. Those places also probably don't routinely hit 90% humidity levels. You sweat profusely even in the shade here (think Florida in the summer if you've ever been). In places as hot an humid as the American south, pretty much everyone gets AC as soon as they can afford to do so. If they do not have AC, it is because they are too poor to afford it. I'm actually kind of a hippie minimalist at heart. I'm willing to give up my car and bike everywhere. I'm willing to go vegan to save the environment. I'd even be willing to crank the AC up to 80 degrees to reduce power consumption. But I would never live in a place with no AC whatsoever, no matter how the building was built. It's one of the last luxuries I'd give up, along with daily showers.
johnmyleswhite 7y ago
Not sure if Spain is the best example since AC is already very popular there and growing in popularity: http://www.ine.es/jaxi/Datos.htm?path=/t25/p500/2008/p01/l0/&file=01015c.px http://www.ine.es/jaxi/Datos.htm?path=/t25/p500/2008/p01/l0/...
plorkyeran 7y ago
The average temperature in Madrid in July is 9C cooler than in Phoenix. Good insulation would reduce the cooling costs (and it's sort of absurd how many homes in hot areas don't have good insulation), but no amount of insulation will keep a house cool when the ambient temperature doesn't even make it down to 25C at night for a month or longer. Portland and SF have similar climates, so you would expect them to look similar. Portland has rain instead of fog, but both rarely get notably hot or cold.

majewsky 7y ago

How did people get anything done in Houston before ACs became common in the mid 20th century?

reaperducer 7y ago
How did people get anything done in Houston before ACs became common in the mid 20th century? Swamp coolers. When I lived in Houston, they were very common. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler
asdfman123 7y ago
My dad lived here in the fifties. People used fans and got used to it. You just would sweat a lot. But there's a good argument that AC lead to the rapid growth of a lot of southern and sun-belt cities. I know if it didn't exist, I would take a hard look at living here. https://www.citylab.com/life/2012/06/cities-might-not-exist-without-air-conditioning/2399/ https://www.citylab.com/life/2012/06/cities-might-not-exist-... But really, how would northerners react if the Houston Chronicle wrote an article entitled "Do we really need heating?" suggesting that people get thick blankets and wear warm coats indoors. A few people in the comments might have a few provocative things to say about the kind of lifestyles of people who live up north, and suggest they move to the kind of place that doesn't need extensive heating.
- eecc 7y ago
  Well, when I was a young sprout we used to use thicker blankets in winter, and that was in Rome, Southern Europe. Today I live in Amsterdam - Northern Europe - and people chill outside bars wearing T-shirts under blazing hot gas heaters... very Titanic IMHO
derekp7 7y ago
AC actually opened up the south to office buildings. They most likely wouldn't exist (except where necessary) without it.
- 7y ago

dang 7y ago

Can you please not post in the flamewar style to HN? Both this and your previous post have been so, and it's a thing we're trying to avoid here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

asdfman123 7y ago
Fair enough. I rewrote it to be less provocative.