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Elixir? Anyway, I'd argue competition is tougher not because there are more competitors (there might be, I don't know) but because they have advanced. Compare

Elixir? Anyway, I'd argue competition is tougher not because there are more competitors (there might be, I don't know) but because they have advanced. Compared to 15 years ago, Python has gained a lot of stuff, JavaScript has become an ok language with very fast implementations, there's a dozen funcional scripting languages targeting browsers, optional typing has made a comeback, Ruby has native threads and a decent vm and a large ecosystem, Go is a valid solution for things were you might have used a scripting language, lua owns the embedded space and luajit is the state of the art etc. In 1998 it was enough to have closures and objects to be a potential perl replacement.

KirinDave 7y ago
Python has gained barely anything at the interpreter and language level, tho?
- zephyrfalcon 7y ago
  Mmh, depends on when you start to count. I still consider 1.5.2 the gold standard for Python -- but I am weird. :) Anyway, since then it has gained new-style classes (which gave explicit methods to things like strings, tuples and numbers), list comprehensions, generators (which also gained some changes over time like 'yield from'), generator comprehensions, built-in sets with new syntax, dictionary comprehensions, decorators, descriptors, properties, context managers and the 'with' keyword, absolute vs relative imports (again with new syntax), import hooks, a boolean type, extended slices, a ternary if, ordered dictionaries, async/await, extended tuple/list unpacking, the @ operator, several new ways of string formatting, ... And of course 3.x brought major changes to the way Unicode was handled. Never mind those, um, interesting type hints and the upcoming := operator. Python as it is now, is a very different language than it was in those days. Even ignoring the whole ecosystem with libraries and package management etc, and standard library changes, it's just a much bigger language.
b2gills 7y ago
In 1998 you would definitely need closures and objects to replace Perl, since Perl has had both since 1994. I was using closures to great effect in Perl before I even knew what a closure was. (Are closures supposed to be a difficult or extraordinary feature?) I really find it funny when other languages do things that Perl has already been doing for years. Go2 is basically copying the way Perl5 has been advancing without breaking backward compatibility. (They don't seem to realize this.) JavaScript copied use strict. PowerShell copied $_. Everybody copied Perl extensions to regular expressions. (I can't wait for them to copy the cleaned-up, easier and more powerful Perl6 regular expression syntax.) Every feature that I've heard that Python3 changes directly correlates with a similar change that has happened in Perl5. (Only Perl5 has done them in a way to reduce breaking your old code.) Those are just a few of the the ones I know of. Perl has been a far more influential language than anyone gives it credit for. Though that is probably because they just use the feature without knowing the history of it. Eventually Perl6 will be just as influential. --- I agree that optional typing is good, I use it everyday in Perl6. (And have been for nearly ten years.)
- riffraff 7y ago
  You misunderstood me: I mentioned closures and objects as something perl had, which were also one of the selling points of ruby and python at the time, which would be considered competitors to perl. The example was meant to show the "minimum" needed to be an interesting scripting language. Edit: I love perl. I love perl6. I hope languages get inspired from it.

KirinDave 7y ago

Python has gained barely anything at the interpreter and language level, tho?

zephyrfalcon 7y ago
Mmh, depends on when you start to count. I still consider 1.5.2 the gold standard for Python -- but I am weird. :) Anyway, since then it has gained new-style classes (which gave explicit methods to things like strings, tuples and numbers), list comprehensions, generators (which also gained some changes over time like 'yield from'), generator comprehensions, built-in sets with new syntax, dictionary comprehensions, decorators, descriptors, properties, context managers and the 'with' keyword, absolute vs relative imports (again with new syntax), import hooks, a boolean type, extended slices, a ternary if, ordered dictionaries, async/await, extended tuple/list unpacking, the @ operator, several new ways of string formatting, ... And of course 3.x brought major changes to the way Unicode was handled. Never mind those, um, interesting type hints and the upcoming := operator. Python as it is now, is a very different language than it was in those days. Even ignoring the whole ecosystem with libraries and package management etc, and standard library changes, it's just a much bigger language.

b2gills 7y ago

In 1998 you would definitely need closures and objects to replace Perl, since Perl has had both since 1994. I was using closures to great effect in Perl before I even knew what a closure was. (Are closures supposed to be a difficult or extraordinary feature?) I really find it funny when other languages do things that Perl has already been doing for years. Go2 is basically copying the way Perl5 has been advancing without breaking backward compatibility. (They don't seem to realize this.) JavaScript copied use strict. PowerShell copied $_. Everybody copied Perl extensions to regular expressions. (I can't wait for them to copy the cleaned-up, easier and more powerful Perl6 regular expression syntax.) Every feature that I've heard that Python3 changes directly correlates with a similar change that has happened in Perl5. (Only Perl5 has done them in a way to reduce breaking your old code.) Those are just a few of the the ones I know of. Perl has been a far more influential language than anyone gives it credit for. Though that is probably because they just use the feature without knowing the history of it. Eventually Perl6 will be just as influential. --- I agree that optional typing is good, I use it everyday in Perl6. (And have been for nearly ten years.)

riffraff 7y ago
You misunderstood me: I mentioned closures and objects as something perl had, which were also one of the selling points of ruby and python at the time, which would be considered competitors to perl. The example was meant to show the "minimum" needed to be an interesting scripting language. Edit: I love perl. I love perl6. I hope languages get inspired from it.