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I wrote a long response to this and deleted it, so I'll just say this. Politics and philosophy are one of the few things where everyone feels qualified no matte

by Zarath 7y ago

I wrote a long response to this and deleted it, so I'll just say this. Politics and philosophy are one of the few things where everyone feels qualified no matter how pedestrian or unqualified they are. So you'll have to forgive people for not bothering to listen to someone who hasn't read a book on politics or philosophy maybe in their entire life yet feel like their regurgitated Fox News talking points should be taken seriously in a discussion. You wouldn't listen to someone who hasn't passed physics 1 about the whether the bridge you are building is stable. This isn't elitism.

aalleavitch 7y ago
On the one hand, having a shared vocabulary and basis for understanding with others is often strictly necessary for fruitful academic debate. On the other hand, just because someone hasn't read the same book doesn't mean they haven't already intuited the same concepts, or that they couldn't have a basis for understanding with you. Maybe I've never read Wittgenstein but I'm intimately familiar with Zen Buddhism, etc. Insular academic fields often feel like they are going out of their way to repel all the potential Ramanujans of the world, and I'm not sure I trust that it's always for the right reasons rather than to fulfill perverse incentives built into the structure of traditional academia.
aldoushuxley001 7y ago
It's close to elitism, maybe better called gatekeeping. Everyone has their own philosophy. While I agree it's fair for people not to care or listen to someone else's philosophy, people also shouldn't be gaslighted for musing about philosophy either, regardless of which or how many books they've read.
nkurz 7y ago
> You wouldn't listen to someone who hasn't passed physics 1 about the whether the bridge you are building is stable. It depends what they were saying about it. If they were claiming that it's obviously safe because it's made of steel, because steel is really strong, then no --- not even if they had a PhD in Physics and knew the exact tensile strength of the materials. But if they were mentioning that in their personal observation this particular bridge sure sways a lot when it's windy, I'd probably listen to them despite their lack of formal education: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbOjxPCfaFk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbOjxPCfaFk.
- Zarath 7y ago
  You're correct, but in the same way you'd trust the person to tell you about the symptoms of the bridge swaying, you can trust a person to tell you about the symptoms of everyday life. E.g. it's hard to find a job, minimum wage isn't enough to live on, I feel isolated, etc. But leave the higher level analysis to those more qualified, at least IMO.
deleted 7y ago
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pessimizer 7y ago
Politics and philosophy aren't physics.

by Zarath 7y ago

aalleavitch 7y ago

On the one hand, having a shared vocabulary and basis for understanding with others is often strictly necessary for fruitful academic debate. On the other hand, just because someone hasn't read the same book doesn't mean they haven't already intuited the same concepts, or that they couldn't have a basis for understanding with you. Maybe I've never read Wittgenstein but I'm intimately familiar with Zen Buddhism, etc. Insular academic fields often feel like they are going out of their way to repel all the potential Ramanujans of the world, and I'm not sure I trust that it's always for the right reasons rather than to fulfill perverse incentives built into the structure of traditional academia.

aldoushuxley001 7y ago

It's close to elitism, maybe better called gatekeeping. Everyone has their own philosophy. While I agree it's fair for people not to care or listen to someone else's philosophy, people also shouldn't be gaslighted for musing about philosophy either, regardless of which or how many books they've read.

nkurz 7y ago

> You wouldn't listen to someone who hasn't passed physics 1 about the whether the bridge you are building is stable. It depends what they were saying about it. If they were claiming that it's obviously safe because it's made of steel, because steel is really strong, then no --- not even if they had a PhD in Physics and knew the exact tensile strength of the materials. But if they were mentioning that in their personal observation this particular bridge sure sways a lot when it's windy, I'd probably listen to them despite their lack of formal education: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbOjxPCfaFk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbOjxPCfaFk.

Zarath 7y ago
You're correct, but in the same way you'd trust the person to tell you about the symptoms of the bridge swaying, you can trust a person to tell you about the symptoms of everyday life. E.g. it's hard to find a job, minimum wage isn't enough to live on, I feel isolated, etc. But leave the higher level analysis to those more qualified, at least IMO.

deleted 7y ago

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pessimizer 7y ago

Politics and philosophy aren't physics.