6 ms·

I think a lot of foreign students come to the US wanting to make friends with Americans and more-or-less “assimilate” but then quickly realize their English lan

I think a lot of foreign students come to the US wanting to make friends with Americans and more-or-less “assimilate” but then quickly realize their English language skills aren’t as strong as they thought and that the cultural differences are larger than they thought and truthfully, that Americans aren’t as welcoming and tolerant of those differences as they thought. So they fallback to a much more comfortable situation by hanging out with other fellow transplants in what is still a very foreign and challenging situation. A much smaller scale example of this is when I studied for a semester in France. I thought my French was decent but it turned out to be barely comprehensible by native French-speakers which doesn’t make for easy or fun friendships.

whoevercares 7y ago
Totally, I think the knowledge about the culture is also very important in such blind social setting. Otherwise the conversation ends fairly quickly. I do think most Americans are quite welcoming but it’s quite awkward when it comes to mutual knowledge of the other’s culture
cgriswald 7y ago
My school has a decent population of both Chinese nationals and Chinese-Americans who speak the language at home. The Chinese nationals are either friendly with everyone (with varying degrees of skill in English) or completely cliquey - excluding even the Chinese Americans who speak their language.
rasz 7y ago
France is a very special case, so is Quebec. Your French was probably more than intelligible to natives, they scoffed you out of nationalistic pride, how dare you try speaking the holy language of culture and fine art.
- aeontech 7y ago
  You seem to think you know better than the parent commenter what their experience was, despite the fact that they were there and you were not. Interestingly, what you imply is a more negative view of the experience rather than a more positive, which may make one think you hold a prejudiced view of the French specifically for some unstated reason.
  - rasz 7y ago
    Have you been abroad? and compared your experiences to France? Speaking broken Czech in Prague gets smiles, encouragement and comments about Slavic language similarities. Doing the same in France results in evil eye and being treated as an asshole.
    - pmyteh 7y ago
      Not uniform across France, either. If you try your broken French in out-of-the-way villages in Brittany, you will generally once again get your smiles and encouragement. In Paris, more of the evil eye. The Netherlands is interesting. It's nearly guaranteed that their English is better than your Dutch, so if you try anything more than "good morning" then they will generally rapidly switch to English. More politely than in France, but with a firmness that indicates no desire at all to waste time on communication problems when none are necessary.
      - Phemist 7y ago
        You can even have it the other way around. An English colleague of mine tried to be polite and speak in (obviously non-native) Dutch to a Dutch lady in a super market once. The lady got offended by it and said "I _do_ speak English, you know". As if, rather than for practice, he tried to speak Dutch because he assumed she couldn't hold up her end of a conversation in English.
        lowdose 7y ago
        It's called the expat paradox.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - mehrdadn 7y ago
      I spoke pretty broken French in Paris and all I received was kindness. Obviously YMMV but I wouldn't paint with a broad brush like this.
qwerty9876 7y ago
In Finland the Erasmus/foreign exchange students of universities also tend to hang out among themselves and the native Finns don't really care about them. One thing I've heard is that the Finns consider many of the exchange students to be a bit juvenile since in their home countries people often live with parents until their 30s. Whereas most Finnish students move out and become fully independent by age 20.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- veb 7y ago
  where on earth is it the norm to be living with your parents until you're in your 30s? Kiwi here, a lot of us move out and go flatting at the first possible chance we get - which is right after high school/first year of uni.
  - Mediterraneo10 7y ago
    > where on earth is it the norm to be living with your parents until you're in your 30s? The south of Europe. Spain is probably the most outstanding country in this regard.
    - rogy 7y ago
      And increasingly common in the UK
      - wyclif 7y ago
        Yes. It's much more expensive now to get one's own flat or share it with roommates in, say, London than it has been in the recent past. And it's only going to get worse.
    - wyclif 7y ago
      Also southeast Asia! In the Philippines, for instance, it's quite common for both women and men to live with their parents until they get married.
ajcodez 7y ago
It’s true in cities as young professionals too. It’s often a group of friends where everyone moved to the city after school or a group of friends that grew up there.

whoevercares 7y ago

Totally, I think the knowledge about the culture is also very important in such blind social setting. Otherwise the conversation ends fairly quickly. I do think most Americans are quite welcoming but it’s quite awkward when it comes to mutual knowledge of the other’s culture

cgriswald 7y ago

My school has a decent population of both Chinese nationals and Chinese-Americans who speak the language at home. The Chinese nationals are either friendly with everyone (with varying degrees of skill in English) or completely cliquey - excluding even the Chinese Americans who speak their language.

rasz 7y ago

France is a very special case, so is Quebec. Your French was probably more than intelligible to natives, they scoffed you out of nationalistic pride, how dare you try speaking the holy language of culture and fine art.

aeontech 7y ago
You seem to think you know better than the parent commenter what their experience was, despite the fact that they were there and you were not. Interestingly, what you imply is a more negative view of the experience rather than a more positive, which may make one think you hold a prejudiced view of the French specifically for some unstated reason.
- rasz 7y ago
  Have you been abroad? and compared your experiences to France? Speaking broken Czech in Prague gets smiles, encouragement and comments about Slavic language similarities. Doing the same in France results in evil eye and being treated as an asshole.
  - pmyteh 7y ago
    Not uniform across France, either. If you try your broken French in out-of-the-way villages in Brittany, you will generally once again get your smiles and encouragement. In Paris, more of the evil eye. The Netherlands is interesting. It's nearly guaranteed that their English is better than your Dutch, so if you try anything more than "good morning" then they will generally rapidly switch to English. More politely than in France, but with a firmness that indicates no desire at all to waste time on communication problems when none are necessary.
    - Phemist 7y ago
      You can even have it the other way around. An English colleague of mine tried to be polite and speak in (obviously non-native) Dutch to a Dutch lady in a super market once. The lady got offended by it and said "I _do_ speak English, you know". As if, rather than for practice, he tried to speak Dutch because he assumed she couldn't hold up her end of a conversation in English.
      - lowdose 7y ago
        It's called the expat paradox.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - mehrdadn 7y ago
    I spoke pretty broken French in Paris and all I received was kindness. Obviously YMMV but I wouldn't paint with a broad brush like this.

qwerty9876 7y ago

In Finland the Erasmus/foreign exchange students of universities also tend to hang out among themselves and the native Finns don't really care about them. One thing I've heard is that the Finns consider many of the exchange students to be a bit juvenile since in their home countries people often live with parents until their 30s. Whereas most Finnish students move out and become fully independent by age 20.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
veb 7y ago
where on earth is it the norm to be living with your parents until you're in your 30s? Kiwi here, a lot of us move out and go flatting at the first possible chance we get - which is right after high school/first year of uni.
- Mediterraneo10 7y ago
  > where on earth is it the norm to be living with your parents until you're in your 30s? The south of Europe. Spain is probably the most outstanding country in this regard.
  - rogy 7y ago
    And increasingly common in the UK
    - wyclif 7y ago
      Yes. It's much more expensive now to get one's own flat or share it with roommates in, say, London than it has been in the recent past. And it's only going to get worse.
  - wyclif 7y ago
    Also southeast Asia! In the Philippines, for instance, it's quite common for both women and men to live with their parents until they get married.

ajcodez 7y ago

It’s true in cities as young professionals too. It’s often a group of friends where everyone moved to the city after school or a group of friends that grew up there.