3 ms·

There's a lot of really good stuff in here, but I think it's important to note that it's a private commons erected on public land that is then leased/rented bac

There's a lot of really good stuff in here, but I think it's important to note that it's a private commons erected on public land that is then leased/rented back to the public. It's not actually a public commons. (And that is the whole problem.)

tptacek 16y ago
Which public land are you referring to? Because the article is referring to things like the Amazon terms of service. What public property is Amazon taking advantage of?
- lukeschlather 16y ago
  Public land that has privately owned network cable on it. Though you're right in principle; that is a small piece of what Amazon does. I was just trying to fend off the oft-repeated notion that the Internet backbone was entirely the work of private industry, and the government has no business regulating it.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    That stopped being public land when we sold the right-of-ways. Moreover, what possible connection could there be between cable right-of-ways and the terms of service for Amazon's own servers?
    - cosmicray 16y ago
      Some of those lands you refer to are leased for for the fiber optic conduits. Lvl3 has 12 ducts on one side of a US Highway not far from me (it also has a state highway number). Lvl3 is paying a periodic lease (probably annually) for the right to be there.
lisper 16y ago
"Private commons" is an oxymoron.
- gloob 16y ago
  Hence the issues described in TFA.
- Perceval 16y ago
  Not really. If you go back and read Habermas, who coined the term "public sphere" (which was what was used in the article), the first public spheres were private salons, coffee houses, and cafes. The discourse of the public sphere was also carried out in the (privately owned) media of the time (newspapers and pamphlets). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_sphere#J.C3.BCrgen_Habermas:_bourgeois_public_sphere http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_sphere#J.C3.BCrgen_Haber... Another (less readable) book on the subject is Badlands of Modernity, which discusses distinct spaces in which social orders are changed. The Palais-Royale in Paris, the private residence of Louis Philippe II d'Orléans, was one such site in which the ideals of the French Revolution were acted out before the revolution itself. http://books.google.com/books?id=B0D0EOJoyMsC http://books.google.com/books?id=B0D0EOJoyMsC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palais-Royal#The_Palais_Under_the_Stewardship_of_Louis_Philippe_II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palais-Royal#The_Palais_Under_t... Private spaces are just as capable of being inclusive, liberal, open commons as public spaces. Indeed, in times of oppressive government, it is private spaces that become the refuge of the remnants of openness. This is one reason why liberal theorists from the Enlightenment era regarded the ownership of private property as a right essential to the maintenance of liberty.
jdp23 16y ago
the term "public commons" doesn't appear in the article ... "public sphere" has a different meaning, tying back to Habermas and others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_sphere http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_sphere the original title "Wikileaks Exposes Internet's Dissent Tax" is a much clearer summary of the argument.

tptacek 16y ago

Which public land are you referring to? Because the article is referring to things like the Amazon terms of service. What public property is Amazon taking advantage of?

lukeschlather 16y ago
Public land that has privately owned network cable on it. Though you're right in principle; that is a small piece of what Amazon does. I was just trying to fend off the oft-repeated notion that the Internet backbone was entirely the work of private industry, and the government has no business regulating it.
- tptacek 16y ago
  That stopped being public land when we sold the right-of-ways. Moreover, what possible connection could there be between cable right-of-ways and the terms of service for Amazon's own servers?
  - cosmicray 16y ago
    Some of those lands you refer to are leased for for the fiber optic conduits. Lvl3 has 12 ducts on one side of a US Highway not far from me (it also has a state highway number). Lvl3 is paying a periodic lease (probably annually) for the right to be there.

lisper 16y ago

"Private commons" is an oxymoron.

gloob 16y ago
Hence the issues described in TFA.
Perceval 16y ago
Not really. If you go back and read Habermas, who coined the term "public sphere" (which was what was used in the article), the first public spheres were private salons, coffee houses, and cafes. The discourse of the public sphere was also carried out in the (privately owned) media of the time (newspapers and pamphlets). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_sphere#J.C3.BCrgen_Habermas:_bourgeois_public_sphere http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_sphere#J.C3.BCrgen_Haber... Another (less readable) book on the subject is Badlands of Modernity, which discusses distinct spaces in which social orders are changed. The Palais-Royale in Paris, the private residence of Louis Philippe II d'Orléans, was one such site in which the ideals of the French Revolution were acted out before the revolution itself. http://books.google.com/books?id=B0D0EOJoyMsC http://books.google.com/books?id=B0D0EOJoyMsC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palais-Royal#The_Palais_Under_the_Stewardship_of_Louis_Philippe_II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palais-Royal#The_Palais_Under_t... Private spaces are just as capable of being inclusive, liberal, open commons as public spaces. Indeed, in times of oppressive government, it is private spaces that become the refuge of the remnants of openness. This is one reason why liberal theorists from the Enlightenment era regarded the ownership of private property as a right essential to the maintenance of liberty.

jdp23 16y ago

the term "public commons" doesn't appear in the article ... "public sphere" has a different meaning, tying back to Habermas and others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_sphere http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_sphere the original title "Wikileaks Exposes Internet's Dissent Tax" is a much clearer summary of the argument.