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It seems that what defines humanity has to be a bit refined... I reckons the article implies the spear was created by the orangutan as it points to Nature artic

It seems that what defines humanity has to be a bit refined... I reckons the article implies the spear was created by the orangutan as it points to Nature articles about tools creation.

thaumasiotes 7y ago
The stick is stolen from humans. (Also, while this is headlined as "spear fishing", the orangutan isn't able to catch any fish with it.)
- lifeisstillgood 7y ago
  He later catches fish with it that had been trapped by fisherman's lines - and as someone who has tried spear fishing even catching one that's trapped is pretty darn good. Yeah, he used a human stick and needs practise. All those people who can build their own cars and drive without lessons may know throw stones Me, I'm gonna wait till the second generation of Orangutan's start copying their parents. If they can use this new way of supplementing their diet, we have a real winner.
- gxx 7y ago
  A human may not be able to catch fish either on the first try. Even for humans it takes practise...
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    It's been 11 years.
- dpeck 7y ago
  “that’s why they call it fishing and not catching” is a popular, if smartass, response to that.
crispinb 7y ago
> It seems that what defines humanity has to be a bit refined Since the discovery of Darwinian evolution, we've understood humanity to be just one more outflow of natural processes (albeit one having its day in the sun). The search for a specific marker of human uniqueness continued for a good century after that, but is fizzling out as we understand more about the nonhuman world, and as the intellectual influence of monotheistic religions wanes. We're a species. We emerged. We'll go away. No essential uniqueness, no destiny.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  I think humans are obviously unique in the same way as the first social insect, or whatever bacterium caused the Oxygen Catastrophe, or early lignin-producing plants. In fact, you could look at human history as kind of an echo of the evolution of lignin, since (I read somewhere) lignin is basically why we have fossil fuels.
  - crispinb 7y ago
    Arguably yes - it's too early to tell as it's such a young species. It's just as likely it will prove to be short (if ecologically consequential) branch of the evolutionary tree that will prove unviable and come to a dead end. But as humans are complex systems that are themselves outcomes of a wider complex system, there's not going to be a marker or essence (or 'definition' as the parent put it) of that uniqueness. Rather there's a one or more characteristically human emergent properties and capacities. No new version of 'tool-using' or 'bipedal' or related substitutes for the discarded Christian soul will win out. No soul, no essence, no destiny. Just one amongst millions of evolutionary branches whose unplanned evolutionary future will play itself out.

It seems that what defines humanity has to be a bit refined... I reckons the article implies the spear was created by the orangutan as it points to Nature articles about tools creation.

thaumasiotes 7y ago

The stick is stolen from humans. (Also, while this is headlined as "spear fishing", the orangutan isn't able to catch any fish with it.)

lifeisstillgood 7y ago
He later catches fish with it that had been trapped by fisherman's lines - and as someone who has tried spear fishing even catching one that's trapped is pretty darn good. Yeah, he used a human stick and needs practise. All those people who can build their own cars and drive without lessons may know throw stones Me, I'm gonna wait till the second generation of Orangutan's start copying their parents. If they can use this new way of supplementing their diet, we have a real winner.
gxx 7y ago
A human may not be able to catch fish either on the first try. Even for humans it takes practise...
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  It's been 11 years.
dpeck 7y ago
“that’s why they call it fishing and not catching” is a popular, if smartass, response to that.

crispinb 7y ago

> It seems that what defines humanity has to be a bit refined Since the discovery of Darwinian evolution, we've understood humanity to be just one more outflow of natural processes (albeit one having its day in the sun). The search for a specific marker of human uniqueness continued for a good century after that, but is fizzling out as we understand more about the nonhuman world, and as the intellectual influence of monotheistic religions wanes. We're a species. We emerged. We'll go away. No essential uniqueness, no destiny.

perl4ever 7y ago
I think humans are obviously unique in the same way as the first social insect, or whatever bacterium caused the Oxygen Catastrophe, or early lignin-producing plants. In fact, you could look at human history as kind of an echo of the evolution of lignin, since (I read somewhere) lignin is basically why we have fossil fuels.
- crispinb 7y ago
  Arguably yes - it's too early to tell as it's such a young species. It's just as likely it will prove to be short (if ecologically consequential) branch of the evolutionary tree that will prove unviable and come to a dead end. But as humans are complex systems that are themselves outcomes of a wider complex system, there's not going to be a marker or essence (or 'definition' as the parent put it) of that uniqueness. Rather there's a one or more characteristically human emergent properties and capacities. No new version of 'tool-using' or 'bipedal' or related substitutes for the discarded Christian soul will win out. No soul, no essence, no destiny. Just one amongst millions of evolutionary branches whose unplanned evolutionary future will play itself out.