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That's just plain wrong. The crash rates of the older 737 don't even approach the 737 MAX, which is an outlier. https://i.imgur.com/lLLeldA.png https://i.imgur

by hugi 7y ago

That's just plain wrong. The crash rates of the older 737 don't even approach the 737 MAX, which is an outlier. https://i.imgur.com/lLLeldA.png https://i.imgur.com/lLLeldA.png Source: https://qz.com/1571820/deaths-on-the-boeing-737-max-8-vs-other-commercial-aircraft/ https://qz.com/1571820/deaths-on-the-boeing-737-max-8-vs-oth...

fromthestart 7y ago
That's pretty misleading. The image is looking at cumulative fatalities over a period, and those planes are all different sizes. The question here is likelihood of fatal accident, which is not addressed by your source.
- hugi 7y ago
  Can you show me the numbers you're talking about?
jhayward 7y ago
Those are fatalities, not crashes. They had the exact same number of crashes, plus one near-crash. Very similar to me. Planes flew with much lower passenger loads in those days so total fatalities can differ. I don't know what the exact crash rate (i.e., % flights that end in hull loss) was.
- hugi 7y ago
  Please show data.
  - jhayward 7y ago
    It's actually worse that I stated: 2 confirmed fatal crashes, 1 severe malfunction in-flight, 4 fatal crashes that are most likely same cause, and two more in-flight loss of control incidents that are likely same. That's just what's on the wiki page [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues
    - hugi 7y ago
      That's all in the 90's. You said "early in its introduction". I provided a list of fatalities, you said that was a bad measure and early 737 was a worse plane that crashed more often. Do you have stats for that?
      - jhayward 7y ago
        It's pretty clear you aren't actually interested in obtaining a balanced view of design flaws in aircraft, rather just trying to win some kind of points. Some design flaws take time to show up, due to life cycle aging. Most of the rudder issues were in 737-300's, which began full production in the mid-1980s. There isn't just a single "737" model, even for the same 737-XXX series. You can do your own research from here on out. If 6 fatal crashes plus non-fatal incidents due to the same design flaw don't persuade you then perhaps you are not persuadable. The basic fact, that there are plenty of previous cases of serious design flaws in aircraft that became quite safe, is sound, whether you choose to accept that or not.

by hugi 7y ago

fromthestart 7y ago

That's pretty misleading. The image is looking at cumulative fatalities over a period, and those planes are all different sizes. The question here is likelihood of fatal accident, which is not addressed by your source.

hugi 7y ago
Can you show me the numbers you're talking about?

jhayward 7y ago

Those are fatalities, not crashes. They had the exact same number of crashes, plus one near-crash. Very similar to me. Planes flew with much lower passenger loads in those days so total fatalities can differ. I don't know what the exact crash rate (i.e., % flights that end in hull loss) was.

hugi 7y ago
Please show data.
- jhayward 7y ago
  It's actually worse that I stated: 2 confirmed fatal crashes, 1 severe malfunction in-flight, 4 fatal crashes that are most likely same cause, and two more in-flight loss of control incidents that are likely same. That's just what's on the wiki page [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues
  - hugi 7y ago
    That's all in the 90's. You said "early in its introduction". I provided a list of fatalities, you said that was a bad measure and early 737 was a worse plane that crashed more often. Do you have stats for that?
    - jhayward 7y ago
      It's pretty clear you aren't actually interested in obtaining a balanced view of design flaws in aircraft, rather just trying to win some kind of points. Some design flaws take time to show up, due to life cycle aging. Most of the rudder issues were in 737-300's, which began full production in the mid-1980s. There isn't just a single "737" model, even for the same 737-XXX series. You can do your own research from here on out. If 6 fatal crashes plus non-fatal incidents due to the same design flaw don't persuade you then perhaps you are not persuadable. The basic fact, that there are plenty of previous cases of serious design flaws in aircraft that became quite safe, is sound, whether you choose to accept that or not.