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That's just the benefit of working as a group though. Bob, Bill, Jill and Joan are already working as a group when Bob and Bill are the bosses. If we make Bill

That's just the benefit of working as a group though. Bob, Bill, Jill and Joan are already working as a group when Bob and Bill are the bosses. If we make Bill and Jill the bosses we don't inherently gain anything from that. Yes Jill and Joan might work better because they feel appreciated, equally though Bill and Bob could work worse because they've lost something. Hell Joan could still be annoyed because she didn't get the bosses job.

godelski 7y ago
A hierarchy is a group structure. You could even call this a coalition game. We can also say that everyone provides a positive value to the group. We can also say that certain people in certain positions provide more value to a coalition. None of this is zero sum. Someone being placed in a certain position does not require value being taken from elsewhere. This is not required in a hierarchical job structure. A zero sum game is one in which where one player gains value that results in another player losing value. Coalition-al games are games where members form groups.
- benj111 7y ago
  "A zero sum game is one in which where one player gains value that results in another player losing value" Yes that's what I'm contending. There can only be one boss, one deputy boss, one assistant deputy boss. Your point about putting the right person in the right role is a fair point, but its from an organisational POV, not from an individual POV. If I'm the deputy manager, and I get demoted because Tina is a better fit, I have lost, and Tina has gained by the same amount. For Tina and I, it is a zero sum game. I am not misinterpreting that situation as a zero sum game, because for me it is a zero sum game.
  - godelski 7y ago
    I understand then. We're talking about two different games. (I believe) You're talking about the game of obtaining positions. Yes, those games are "mostly" zero sum. I am talking about a game which describes how well off everyone in the structure is. This is part of why I say "mostly" above, because if the structure is functioning efficiently it can expand and new allocations can be made, but I'd agree that in that instance it is again a zero sum for obtaining those positions (but now with more allocations than the previous game).

godelski 7y ago

A hierarchy is a group structure. You could even call this a coalition game. We can also say that everyone provides a positive value to the group. We can also say that certain people in certain positions provide more value to a coalition. None of this is zero sum. Someone being placed in a certain position does not require value being taken from elsewhere. This is not required in a hierarchical job structure. A zero sum game is one in which where one player gains value that results in another player losing value. Coalition-al games are games where members form groups.

benj111 7y ago
"A zero sum game is one in which where one player gains value that results in another player losing value" Yes that's what I'm contending. There can only be one boss, one deputy boss, one assistant deputy boss. Your point about putting the right person in the right role is a fair point, but its from an organisational POV, not from an individual POV. If I'm the deputy manager, and I get demoted because Tina is a better fit, I have lost, and Tina has gained by the same amount. For Tina and I, it is a zero sum game. I am not misinterpreting that situation as a zero sum game, because for me it is a zero sum game.
- godelski 7y ago
  I understand then. We're talking about two different games. (I believe) You're talking about the game of obtaining positions. Yes, those games are "mostly" zero sum. I am talking about a game which describes how well off everyone in the structure is. This is part of why I say "mostly" above, because if the structure is functioning efficiently it can expand and new allocations can be made, but I'd agree that in that instance it is again a zero sum for obtaining those positions (but now with more allocations than the previous game).