4 ms·

What's the value of saving the environment? It doesn't make sense to look at just the balance sheet in matters like these. PS your website is down

xiaolingxiao 7y ago
Agree with the sentiment. I don’t know about Amtrak’s carbon foot print relative to airlines so I don’t know how the score tally out. The trains run on electricity but I’m not sure how it’s genrates. And fixed the link thank you
- boulos 7y ago
  It’s purportedly [1] better at ~1500 BTU per passenger-mile versus ~2300 for air travel, but I couldn’t find any methodology there. Most of the long-distance trains are diesel. If you read their full sustainability report [2] you can see that diesel fuel is their second largest cost, which means it’s also the primary source of energy. Caltrain, for example, is still trying to raise funds for electrifying the system here in the Bay Area. It’ll soon be thirty years, since it was first proposed apparently [3]. [1] https://m.amtrak.com/h5/r/www.amtrak.com/travel-green https://m.amtrak.com/h5/r/www.amtrak.com/travel-green [2] https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/environmental1/Amtrak-Sustainability-Report-FY18.pdf https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/p... [3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrification_of_Caltrain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrification_of_Caltrain
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    Imagine the equation if the diesel fuel burned had a carbon tax on it, and the electricity (provided by overhead wire) was almost free due to the exceedingly low cost of renewables. Of course it would be an enormous effort to electrify train lines across America; it should still be done.
    - Gibbon1 7y ago
      I've wondered if battery electric multiple unit trains will/would make electrification cheaper since you then don't have to electrify the whole line. You can avoid having to put overhead lines where inconvenient, expensive, or potentially dangerous as well. Like tunnels and stations.
      - entee 7y ago
        I love this idea, are you thinking a hybrid model? i.e. Overheads where possible, battery to bridge the gaps? that way in some places the trains could charge en-route.
        Gibbon1 7y ago
        That's exactly what I think is interesting. It's actually an old idea. I think with modern batters the design becomes a lot more viable. There are already some of these in service and more on order. Found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NpqPP5SMfY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NpqPP5SMfY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxZQeS__6sE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxZQeS__6sE
    - jimmywanger 7y ago
      Well, we'll have to look at the cost benefit analysis. It should be done if it makes sense. Would it be more economically feasible to invest the money into fourth generation nuclear technology and then research solid aluminum batteries that are hot swappable? That would cut down on costs for copper or steel for electrification. "Enormous effort" and "it should be done" without an economic analysis is generally ill thought out.

xiaolingxiao 7y ago

Agree with the sentiment. I don’t know about Amtrak’s carbon foot print relative to airlines so I don’t know how the score tally out. The trains run on electricity but I’m not sure how it’s genrates. And fixed the link thank you

boulos 7y ago
It’s purportedly [1] better at ~1500 BTU per passenger-mile versus ~2300 for air travel, but I couldn’t find any methodology there. Most of the long-distance trains are diesel. If you read their full sustainability report [2] you can see that diesel fuel is their second largest cost, which means it’s also the primary source of energy. Caltrain, for example, is still trying to raise funds for electrifying the system here in the Bay Area. It’ll soon be thirty years, since it was first proposed apparently [3]. [1] https://m.amtrak.com/h5/r/www.amtrak.com/travel-green https://m.amtrak.com/h5/r/www.amtrak.com/travel-green [2] https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/environmental1/Amtrak-Sustainability-Report-FY18.pdf https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/p... [3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrification_of_Caltrain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrification_of_Caltrain
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  Imagine the equation if the diesel fuel burned had a carbon tax on it, and the electricity (provided by overhead wire) was almost free due to the exceedingly low cost of renewables. Of course it would be an enormous effort to electrify train lines across America; it should still be done.
  - Gibbon1 7y ago
    I've wondered if battery electric multiple unit trains will/would make electrification cheaper since you then don't have to electrify the whole line. You can avoid having to put overhead lines where inconvenient, expensive, or potentially dangerous as well. Like tunnels and stations.
    - entee 7y ago
      I love this idea, are you thinking a hybrid model? i.e. Overheads where possible, battery to bridge the gaps? that way in some places the trains could charge en-route.
      - Gibbon1 7y ago
        That's exactly what I think is interesting. It's actually an old idea. I think with modern batters the design becomes a lot more viable. There are already some of these in service and more on order. Found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NpqPP5SMfY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NpqPP5SMfY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxZQeS__6sE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxZQeS__6sE
  - jimmywanger 7y ago
    Well, we'll have to look at the cost benefit analysis. It should be done if it makes sense. Would it be more economically feasible to invest the money into fourth generation nuclear technology and then research solid aluminum batteries that are hot swappable? That would cut down on costs for copper or steel for electrification. "Enormous effort" and "it should be done" without an economic analysis is generally ill thought out.