4 ms·

I see people interpret personal comfort as zero sum and it drives me nuts. Like somehow other people being safe and comfortable devalues ones own safety and com

by zwkrt 7y ago

I see people interpret personal comfort as zero sum and it drives me nuts. Like somehow other people being safe and comfortable devalues ones own safety and comfort.

wayoutthere 7y ago
I suspect it is because many humans derive self-worth from seeing other people who are worse off than they are. If you have that mindset, personal comfort really can be a zero-sum game, sadly...
- doc_gunthrop 7y ago
  What you just described is rivalry-based schadenfreude. > Rivalry-Based Schadenfreude is individualistic and related to interpersonal competition. It arises from humans' desire to stand out from and out-perform their peers. Another person's misfortune elicits pleasure because the observer now feels better about their personal identity and self-worth, instead of their group identity.
  - wayoutthere 7y ago
    I actually believe this effect is responsible for most of the racism we have in the US. Black people are an easily identifiable “lower class” who aren’t supposed to have power over white people or have higher social standing. A lot of Americans were irrationally angry at Barack Obama as a result.
    - wpietri 7y ago
      And that's no accident. I'm currently reading Kendi's excellent "Stamped from the Beginning". He goes into a fair bit of detail how early in the US's history poor whites allied with poor blacks in pursuit of better economic equality. The white elites quickly recognized this as a problem and worked to turn poor white people against the black population. We're still paying the price today.
      - barberousse 7y ago
        W.E.B. DuBois wrote about this same exact scenario a hundred years ago as well, though writing about the reconstruction period in the South after the war
- 0815test 7y ago
  Protip: please don't say "humans" when you can just say 'people', or even 'folks'! It makes you sound a lot more, well, human, and less like a poorly-programmed, clunky robot. Related: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/07/04/style-guide-not-sounding-like-an-evil-robot/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/07/04/style-guide-not-soundi...
  - perfmode 7y ago
    this feels like a superfluous nit
    - wayoutthere 7y ago
      Thank you human :)
  - jtms 7y ago
    Protip: No one cares about this
whatshisface 7y ago
Could you give some examples?
- Chris_Chambers 7y ago
  Nightmare mode: Give examples without pivoting to a completely unrelated discussion about Trump supporters who want the fruits of their own labor to go to their own children rather than to strangers.
- zwkrt 7y ago
  What I was thinking of as I typed that comment was people who begrudge increases in the standard of living for those in poverty. I see this in two forms. The first and most direct form I see is when people don’t want minimum wage to increase because it means their own wage becomes closer to the minimum. The second and more insidious form I see is in judging the entire concept of “poverty” in a critical light. I recall my mother being furious that the average person below the poverty line had a color TV (this was in the 90s). I would think in a progressive and loving society we might celebrate the fact that what we consider our poorest citizens have access to technology and new niceties.
  - roenxi 7y ago
    > I recall my mother being furious that... I'm going to be the first to acknowledge that you know your own mother a lot better than I do; but strictly from what you've written that is a defensible position. Most of the readers here live in a society that is extremely compassionate compared to most historical societies; one where there is constant political pressure for the people who make good decisions to support those who make bad decisions. If some impoverished person is going into debt or spending the last of their savings to buy a colour TV, that is money that someone who is relatively well off is going to have to make up later, eg, when our poor friend comes up against unexpected medical expenses. And a colour TV is pretty much a pure luxury that will further cause them to waste time not improving themselves or the world around them. I'm not about to start shouting at anyone; but being a cautious person who prepares for many contingencies is very frustrating because if you build up a financial buffer against things going wrong you have to start picking up the burden for people who not only made stupid choices, but don't realise it. Simply don't acknowledge that they were stupid and also would make the same choices again with enthusiasm. I don't even mind supporting a few people who are just lazy, but supporting someone who won't acknowledge that they are actively making their situation worse is miserable.

by zwkrt 7y ago

I see people interpret personal comfort as zero sum and it drives me nuts. Like somehow other people being safe and comfortable devalues ones own safety and comfort.

wayoutthere 7y ago

I suspect it is because many humans derive self-worth from seeing other people who are worse off than they are. If you have that mindset, personal comfort really can be a zero-sum game, sadly...

doc_gunthrop 7y ago
What you just described is rivalry-based schadenfreude. > Rivalry-Based Schadenfreude is individualistic and related to interpersonal competition. It arises from humans' desire to stand out from and out-perform their peers. Another person's misfortune elicits pleasure because the observer now feels better about their personal identity and self-worth, instead of their group identity.
- wayoutthere 7y ago
  I actually believe this effect is responsible for most of the racism we have in the US. Black people are an easily identifiable “lower class” who aren’t supposed to have power over white people or have higher social standing. A lot of Americans were irrationally angry at Barack Obama as a result.
  - wpietri 7y ago
    And that's no accident. I'm currently reading Kendi's excellent "Stamped from the Beginning". He goes into a fair bit of detail how early in the US's history poor whites allied with poor blacks in pursuit of better economic equality. The white elites quickly recognized this as a problem and worked to turn poor white people against the black population. We're still paying the price today.
    - barberousse 7y ago
      W.E.B. DuBois wrote about this same exact scenario a hundred years ago as well, though writing about the reconstruction period in the South after the war
0815test 7y ago
Protip: please don't say "humans" when you can just say 'people', or even 'folks'! It makes you sound a lot more, well, human, and less like a poorly-programmed, clunky robot. Related: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/07/04/style-guide-not-sounding-like-an-evil-robot/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/07/04/style-guide-not-soundi...
- perfmode 7y ago
  this feels like a superfluous nit
  - wayoutthere 7y ago
    Thank you human :)
- jtms 7y ago
  Protip: No one cares about this

whatshisface 7y ago

Could you give some examples?

Chris_Chambers 7y ago
Nightmare mode: Give examples without pivoting to a completely unrelated discussion about Trump supporters who want the fruits of their own labor to go to their own children rather than to strangers.
zwkrt 7y ago
What I was thinking of as I typed that comment was people who begrudge increases in the standard of living for those in poverty. I see this in two forms. The first and most direct form I see is when people don’t want minimum wage to increase because it means their own wage becomes closer to the minimum. The second and more insidious form I see is in judging the entire concept of “poverty” in a critical light. I recall my mother being furious that the average person below the poverty line had a color TV (this was in the 90s). I would think in a progressive and loving society we might celebrate the fact that what we consider our poorest citizens have access to technology and new niceties.
- roenxi 7y ago
  > I recall my mother being furious that... I'm going to be the first to acknowledge that you know your own mother a lot better than I do; but strictly from what you've written that is a defensible position. Most of the readers here live in a society that is extremely compassionate compared to most historical societies; one where there is constant political pressure for the people who make good decisions to support those who make bad decisions. If some impoverished person is going into debt or spending the last of their savings to buy a colour TV, that is money that someone who is relatively well off is going to have to make up later, eg, when our poor friend comes up against unexpected medical expenses. And a colour TV is pretty much a pure luxury that will further cause them to waste time not improving themselves or the world around them. I'm not about to start shouting at anyone; but being a cautious person who prepares for many contingencies is very frustrating because if you build up a financial buffer against things going wrong you have to start picking up the burden for people who not only made stupid choices, but don't realise it. Simply don't acknowledge that they were stupid and also would make the same choices again with enthusiasm. I don't even mind supporting a few people who are just lazy, but supporting someone who won't acknowledge that they are actively making their situation worse is miserable.