5 ms·

Why should it be banned?

elicash 7y ago
You honestly don't know why the person you're replying to is concerned and wants GitHub to remove this? I get some may have a different opinion, but to not even BE AWARE that this raises ethical questions is pretty bizarre.
- buboard 7y ago
  distributing the images is an ethical concern. Making them? i dont know. Can we ban people for "mentally undressing" someone? Plus this codebase will most certainly be used to make more interesting effects than simply undressing. It is inevitable that future movies will be made by mediocre-looking actors.
  - LeonB 7y ago
    It’s more than “an ethical concern”. It’s illegal in some jurisdictions currently and will be illegal in a lot more once legislation catches up with technology.
    - buboard 7y ago
      What about people who consentiously want their pictures used with this?
      - LeonB 7y ago
        ....there wouldn't be any great loss in this not being available because those people would still be able to be photographed with their actual clothes off. This is for harassment. Other potential uses are invented by people to try and provide cover for its obvious target use.
        buboard 7y ago
        > This is for harassment. Yeah, though removing it from github won't make things better. Some kid would find the code anyway and distribute the app to jailbroken phones. That's why people need to be aware of this app - because if it's not the harassment will be worse.
        LeonB 7y ago
        Less abusive ex-boyfriends and abusive ex-husbands will find it. That's a win for each one of the victims that are spared. So it would make things "better" -- not perfect, but "better". And leaving it on github will make things "worse".
        buboard 7y ago
        Hmm, quite the contrary i think. Abusive exes will be even more motivated to find and use such an app, at a time when the public will be oblivious to their existence. I think it is inevitable for these kinds of apps and websites to start circulating widely. As always, there will be an initial shock and outrage, after which people will realize it's actually a toy and learn to dismiss it as fake pictures. And if the pictures are really good, i hope this tech can then be used as plausible deniability to someone who had her actual pictures stolen.
        LeonB 7y ago
        I think the “public” are already aware of photoshopping etc. I don’t agree that this tool will primarily serve to make the public more informed. The effect you’re talking about is far smaller than the main effect. If you really put yourself in the shoes of a victim I believe you’d feel differently.
    - kmm 7y ago
      I don't think it's anywhere illegal if not used for revenge porn or harassment.
  - jasonhansel 7y ago
    Maybe so, but this technology allows you to distribute them widely, and even claim that they are real photos. There is no moral equivalence. If the idea is that this codebase could be used for less ethically questionable purposes, then why was it put on GitHub in its original form, which is clearly designed for producing nudes?
    - buboard 7y ago
      I guess because it's the easiest thing to do, and github the defacto way to give away code. Now, considering that there is very little money to be made from an app that will be banned in app stores, i don't think it's that dangerous.
- dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago
  You honestly don't know there are people who may have different ethical concerns than yours?
jasonhansel 7y ago
It can be used to create pornographic images of strangers without their consent. I'm honestly surprised that you don't find it objectionable.
- zeliard 7y ago
  Photoshop has been used for that for decades. Why not ban Photoshop?
  - jasonhansel 7y ago
    (1) Photoshop was not designed purely for generating fake nudes. (2) I'm not calling for government censorship, just saying that GitHub (and by extension Microsoft) shouldn't be giving these people a platform.
  - LeonB 7y ago
    In Queensland, under Revenge Porn laws: > “The new laws also cover photoshopped images – where an image has been altered to look like a person is portrayed in an intimate way.” --http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2019/2/13/revenge-porn-now-a-criminal-offence http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2019/2/13/revenge-por...
- randyrand 7y ago
  check out /r/bubbling. No one has banned that either even though it’s non-consensual porn as well and has been for years. I don’t recall any articles written about it. It suggests that creating porn of people is not always objectionable.
- JonAtkinson 7y ago
  Please don’t presume to know my position on this. I never said whether I do or I don’t find this objectionable. I asked you to expand on your comment, that is all.
  - jasonhansel 7y ago
    Sorry for misunderstanding. I just think that it would be a clear invasion of privacy, and show a serious lack of respect and decency, to create fake, realistic nudes of someone without permission.

You honestly don't know why the person you're replying to is concerned and wants GitHub to remove this? I get some may have a different opinion, but to not even BE AWARE that this raises ethical questions is pretty bizarre.

buboard 7y ago
distributing the images is an ethical concern. Making them? i dont know. Can we ban people for "mentally undressing" someone? Plus this codebase will most certainly be used to make more interesting effects than simply undressing. It is inevitable that future movies will be made by mediocre-looking actors.
- LeonB 7y ago
  It’s more than “an ethical concern”. It’s illegal in some jurisdictions currently and will be illegal in a lot more once legislation catches up with technology.
  - buboard 7y ago
    What about people who consentiously want their pictures used with this?
    - LeonB 7y ago
      ....there wouldn't be any great loss in this not being available because those people would still be able to be photographed with their actual clothes off. This is for harassment. Other potential uses are invented by people to try and provide cover for its obvious target use.
      - buboard 7y ago
        > This is for harassment. Yeah, though removing it from github won't make things better. Some kid would find the code anyway and distribute the app to jailbroken phones. That's why people need to be aware of this app - because if it's not the harassment will be worse.
        LeonB 7y ago
        Less abusive ex-boyfriends and abusive ex-husbands will find it. That's a win for each one of the victims that are spared. So it would make things "better" -- not perfect, but "better". And leaving it on github will make things "worse".
        buboard 7y ago
        Hmm, quite the contrary i think. Abusive exes will be even more motivated to find and use such an app, at a time when the public will be oblivious to their existence. I think it is inevitable for these kinds of apps and websites to start circulating widely. As always, there will be an initial shock and outrage, after which people will realize it's actually a toy and learn to dismiss it as fake pictures. And if the pictures are really good, i hope this tech can then be used as plausible deniability to someone who had her actual pictures stolen.
        LeonB 7y ago
        I think the “public” are already aware of photoshopping etc. I don’t agree that this tool will primarily serve to make the public more informed. The effect you’re talking about is far smaller than the main effect. If you really put yourself in the shoes of a victim I believe you’d feel differently.
  - kmm 7y ago
    I don't think it's anywhere illegal if not used for revenge porn or harassment.
- jasonhansel 7y ago
  Maybe so, but this technology allows you to distribute them widely, and even claim that they are real photos. There is no moral equivalence. If the idea is that this codebase could be used for less ethically questionable purposes, then why was it put on GitHub in its original form, which is clearly designed for producing nudes?
  - buboard 7y ago
    I guess because it's the easiest thing to do, and github the defacto way to give away code. Now, considering that there is very little money to be made from an app that will be banned in app stores, i don't think it's that dangerous.
dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago
You honestly don't know there are people who may have different ethical concerns than yours?

jasonhansel 7y ago

It can be used to create pornographic images of strangers without their consent. I'm honestly surprised that you don't find it objectionable.

zeliard 7y ago
Photoshop has been used for that for decades. Why not ban Photoshop?
- jasonhansel 7y ago
  (1) Photoshop was not designed purely for generating fake nudes. (2) I'm not calling for government censorship, just saying that GitHub (and by extension Microsoft) shouldn't be giving these people a platform.
- LeonB 7y ago
  In Queensland, under Revenge Porn laws: > “The new laws also cover photoshopped images – where an image has been altered to look like a person is portrayed in an intimate way.” --http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2019/2/13/revenge-porn-now-a-criminal-offence http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2019/2/13/revenge-por...
randyrand 7y ago
check out /r/bubbling. No one has banned that either even though it’s non-consensual porn as well and has been for years. I don’t recall any articles written about it. It suggests that creating porn of people is not always objectionable.
JonAtkinson 7y ago
Please don’t presume to know my position on this. I never said whether I do or I don’t find this objectionable. I asked you to expand on your comment, that is all.
- jasonhansel 7y ago
  Sorry for misunderstanding. I just think that it would be a clear invasion of privacy, and show a serious lack of respect and decency, to create fake, realistic nudes of someone without permission.