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Forest kindergarten
- lopespm 7y agoIt is an interesting concept to have these borderless, less limited kindergartens. Another example is a Tokyo kindergarten which was architected to provide more freedom to children, and let them play and experiment as they wish[1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5jwEyDaR-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5jwEyDaR-0
- johnhenry 7y agoKingergartens or Kindergartens?
- dang 7y agoTypo fixed. Thanks.
- dfee 7y agoIn San Diego, there is a camp called Outpost Summer Camp that is exactly this. This has also made me post-Montessori. I’ve left the faith, but we’ve found the forest.
- em-bee 7y agocan you elaborate on post-montessori please? how does that look like to you?
- dfee 7y agoI loved the idea of Montessori, and it’s an issue I raised in open discussion at one of the school’s group chats. Basically, in principle it’s great. Children drive themselves and follow what they’re passionate about (with a teacher’s encouragement). If they’ve got a tendency for math, for example, the teacher helps them develop their own intuitions and keeps those pathways open for them. In practice, my son believed there was a limit on his abilities to develop because children under 4 years and zero days weren’t allowed to begin learning numbers (or those stations weren’t available to him). You see, it’s still cohort based learning, where cohort is based on age not ability. So he knew numbers from home, but believed at school he was incapable. It was a strange sort of cognitive dissonance where he could only “count to twenty” as reinforced by his classmates, because he wasn’t old enough to do the number station. And yet, he didn’t realize that meant he wasn’t able to say the numbers greater than 20 - but often times he’d go from 1-200, etc. Math wasn’t the only topic where this happened unfortunately. This was at one of the few fully certified Montessori programs in San Diego. I believe that it was a better program than a median program, but I’m not sure if it’s because his peers came from families who could afford to spend time with their children, or if the program itself was better than median. However, it’s a different model that definitely did not address my root concern - assisting a child to advance at their own pace (faster or slower). Which just means that my expectations were mismanaged. Overall, I think the forest kindergarten concept is more rewarding for my kid, and he’s at least happy going to and coming home from school. That’s an oft overlooked part of schooling: ensuring your child isn’t miserable - and there’s quite a bit of misery at Montessori, due to the focus on quiet, individual work.
- em-bee 7y agochildren under 4 years and zero days weren’t allowed to begin learning numbers ouch. someone hasn't been paying attention in their training. there is no hard date to introduce any activity. if children are interested in an activity, they are introduced to it. or to a simpler one that leads up to it. applying a hard date shows lack of understanding of the different speed of childrens development. if it's not to late i'd read up a bit on the montessori method and confront the teachers about it. they are clearly doing it wrong. i'd also check who certified that school, or where the teachers were trained. unfortunately, the montessori name is not protected, and anyone school can claim to be montessori, even if they are not.
- watwut 7y agoThe montessory materials I read were not about following passion. It was rather that kids could choose order in which they did educational activities during dat - but in the end all the kids did the same ones. It is more about illusion of control and freedom within limited bounds.
- em-bee 7y agoit's the freedom to choose within the available options (that is the world as you know it). as kids get older the options expand, and hence learning to make those choices as opposed to taking what is fed to you is really the most important part. dfee's son was denied that choice, and hence the effect that montessori is supposed to have may not take hold.
- watwut 7y agoThe kid was under 4. And montessory as original philosophy really was not about learning to make educational choices. Montessory was designed for troubles boys originally. The effect it was supposed to have was that the kids that fail get some order and controll at the same time and build good working habits. It worked for non troubled kids too and had good results, but it was not designed to push kids fast forward.
- barry-cotter 7y ago
- eob 7y agoThere are several preschools like this in the Bay Area. My son has been going to one for three years in the Presidio. They show up rain or shine (but seek shelter in high wind or forest fire smoke). It’s been an absolutely wonderful experience.
- nkrisc 7y agoThere's one near where I used to live in Chicago. They use a local Forest preserve. Strangely there is a contigent of neighbors who continually try to get the whole thing shutdown because they don't think young kids should be outside like that all the time. They try to complain and say they leave garbage or are noisy or other invented complaints. From what I understand, what they're really upset about is that they can't let their dogs run around off the leash with little kids around all the time.
- sephlietz 7y agoIf you're talking about the one at the North Park Village Nature Center, it looks like they were already shut down. :( https://blockclubchicago.org/2019/06/20/preschool-program-kicked-out-of-the-woods-by-north-park-neighbors/ https://blockclubchicago.org/2019/06/20/preschool-program-ki...
- dmix 7y agoThose small groups with a bit of power like NIMBY activists are the worst. You see it on Facebook groups for buildings too, they range from over-protective types who are scared of the city/outside to fully invented hypothetical problems any time something is "different" happens. I've always wondered what these people get out of it.
- Sharlin 7y agoIn their own narrative, of course, they're just good people trying to protect children/live their live in peace/etc.
- Pfhreak 7y agoWe've got our daughter in a similar preschool. She spends 2-3 hours during school days outside in a semi-structured environment. (Ie, there are adults and rules, but the kids are free to negotiate their own games, social interactions, and play.) It's been astounding how well balanced and social all the kids are from that school. I supposed it's anecdata (I only know ~10-15 kids), but there's a lot more awareness and empathy than I've seen from other kids in the 3-5 year old range. Observationally, there is a little less skills development in reading/coloring within the lines. As a parent, it feels impossible to know the right thing to do for your kids. You have to emphasize something in their education, at the expense of something else. Choosing a school that values the outdoors, empathy, and social development as the basis for teaching seems to complement our tech savvy home life. I hope it works out.
- toast0 7y ago> As a parent, it feels impossible to know the right thing to do for your kids. Being adequate is enough. Chose something that doesn't seem clearly harmful, pay attention for signs of harm, pay attention for signs that it's a bad fit and make a change if it is. Really all you need from preschool is socialization, and some exposure to germ warfare. What I hoped for my child to get was familiarity and positive associations with the school concept. In my mind, it's more helpful if young people enjoy school and feel it is a place where they can do things well than if they have a lot more academic skills early and have developed a dislike of school.
- barry-cotter 7y ago> What I hoped for my child to get was familiarity and positive associations with the school concept. Why? Any Prussian model school will inure them to ranking, tedium, busywork, being ranked and doing things that seem pointless because an authority figure said to as well as another, whether they begin education in a child centred school or not. It’s not like most metro areas even have a child centred school, whether Sudbury, Montessori, Waldorf or other. They’ll learn what school is actually like on exposure to it and develop associations with it based on that whether they went to a child centred school for a brief period or not. The long run effects of beginning schooling in a humane system will fade and the only long run effects will be a few better years in childhood. I suppose that’s enough justification by itself.
- skybrian 7y agoI wonder if this would also result in fewer children being nearsighted? https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-urge-children-to-play-outside-for-their-eyesight https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-urge-children-to-pla...
- fit2rule 7y agoBoth of my kids have attended Waldkindergarten as a standard cultural action here in Austria, and it has been extremely successful in their case - motivating them each to be engaged in nature in their environment, wherever we go. I quite often will find either one of them in our own garden, poking at something interesting, whittling a new stick, caring for a creature they found somewhere. Whereas their peers who did not attend seem, these days, to only have attention for their mobile phones. I strongly encourage every parent in the Western world to get your kids engaged in the natural environment, whatever it takes. City-dwellers seriously need contact with nature, especially kids. I truly believe a kind of highly damaging neurosis occurs when people don't hug trees.
- jmkd 7y agoBoth my kids went through a version of this system in Copenhagen. 2 weeks in the forest (by bus each day) then 2 weeks in the kindergarten. This meant the kindergarten building could support double its capacity as only half the kids were there at one time. Main takeaway for me was how resilient they became to cold, playing, eating and resting outdoors all day during winter, with far more ailments acquired during the indoor fortnights than those spent outdoors.
- alkonaut 7y agoThis is very common in Sweden. Weather isn’t an issue even in winter. Even in ”normal” kindergarten, my kids took their afternoon naps outside in -10C.
- checkyoursudo 7y agoWaldkindergarten was great for my boy. My younger girl isn't quite old enough for it yet where we live, but I am sure it will be good for her as well. My boy was outside, no matter the weather, every school day for about 3 hours, and then inside for about 45 minutes. Large motor skill and plenty of loose- or un-structured play with many other kids seems to be a really great way for young humans to develop. They went on hikes, exploring everywhere, looking for scat, and all kinds of activities during their outside time every day. If you have the opportunity to let your kid do this or something like it, then I highly recommend it.
- rubidium 7y agoAs a parent of three 3 and under, and interested in this, can you share some of the practicals? -what if it’s cold (40f) and rainy? Do they still go out? What do you dress your kid in? -what about fights with sticks? -what about all the stuff in the woods that may or may not be edible (eg mushrooms)? Just interested as these are some of the “how would that part work?” That come to mind for me.
- Doxin 7y ago> what about fights with sticks? As an anecdote, I went to a school with a decided lack of sticks. Fights were had by throwing building blocks instead. Kids will do stupid things, and sticks aren't inherently more dangerous than building blocks.