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I wonder why that is, I see very, very little of that mentality in the Netherlands. There's also a very interesting phenomena where right now in London the peo

I wonder why that is, I see very, very little of that mentality in the Netherlands. There's also a very interesting phenomena where right now in London the people who bike are "Cyclists" where they're much more likely to be enthusiasts, people who want to really go fast, people who have Bicycling as part of their identity. In the Netherlands, it's just a way of getting around and not an ideology. The other contributing factor could be size. London is so much bigger than most Dutch cities. If you're commuting across London, speed probably matters much more to you.

thekid314 7y ago
Yeah, many of the cyclists in London wear fancy clothes and ride fast bikes. It's an identity thing. There is an sad/interesting gender gap too because many of the cycle commuters are male. There should be a real push by companies to make cycling more female friendly. That means having easy changing rooms/showers at work and giving women a little more time to get ready in the morning. I love biking in London, going fast to the Aldi and carrying my groceries back on the special bike lanes, but there are still issues to resolve.
- lifeisstillgood 7y ago
  The gender issue is real - I would put the ratio of female to male cyclists on the commute at about the same as in the software teams at work. Perhaps there is a similar thing going on
jacquesm 7y ago
Case in point: tourists. The Dutch cycle a lot but not so much that it becomes a goal in itself. But for tourists it is different: they don't get to do it that often so they will maximize their exposure during the little time they have in NL. Where these worlds collide (for instance: the dunes) it can get pretty annoying with tourists treating the cycling paths much as though they are highways and endangering people with small children with reckless overtaking at ridiculous speeds, and then getting upset when they do not have a clear path. Cycling is all about sharing the space in a nice way. It would be much better if these tourists took their anger home and advocated for better cycling infrastructure in their own countries.
andor 7y ago
I don't have the feeling that the mentality of cyclists and car drivers in The Netherlands is different, they just relaxed the situation by giving everyone enough space. I currently work in Utrecht. Walking around the city center, even in pedestrian zones, I need to be careful not to run into a bike. Passive-aggressive close passes are the norm. Last week I saw someone clean glass shards off a bike path. Nice gesture, right? Guess what happened next... a middle-aged lady whizzed by over that path, swearing "get off the bike lane you *#($@!!"
lifeisstillgood 7y ago
Speed might matter but so do traffic laws - it is a change of mentality that is needed - that this is not exercise and that the journey takes X minutes so leave early. we all do this for cars in london. we just need to for cycles
lifeisstillgood 7y ago
I think that is it - I am (middle aged fat happy) trying to get fitter and 3 miles across London each morning helps. But it's not a race track and it has taken me a long time to accept it for what it is - a commute in traffic, with minor exercise benefits I suspect a lot of people (younger and fitter) don't see it as such. And I get that. A long long time ago when I would cycle in car traffic, I upgraded my bike from an old cheap MTB to a nicer road bike. On the flat I saw a 5 mph increase in my top speed the very next day. And my commute time did not change a bit. It was not how fast I was capable of travelling but how many risks I was prepared to take that decided if I could shave more time off the commute. And this is it - it takes a certain amount of time to cycle a mile on the flat open road. In traffic it takes more time, and only by dialling up the risk-o-meter to 11 can you get it back down to "open flat" time. And that risk-o-meter means other people's blood so it's not acceptable. If I want my exercise then it's running on the pavement and press ups in the park.

thekid314 7y ago

Yeah, many of the cyclists in London wear fancy clothes and ride fast bikes. It's an identity thing. There is an sad/interesting gender gap too because many of the cycle commuters are male. There should be a real push by companies to make cycling more female friendly. That means having easy changing rooms/showers at work and giving women a little more time to get ready in the morning. I love biking in London, going fast to the Aldi and carrying my groceries back on the special bike lanes, but there are still issues to resolve.

lifeisstillgood 7y ago
The gender issue is real - I would put the ratio of female to male cyclists on the commute at about the same as in the software teams at work. Perhaps there is a similar thing going on

jacquesm 7y ago

Case in point: tourists. The Dutch cycle a lot but not so much that it becomes a goal in itself. But for tourists it is different: they don't get to do it that often so they will maximize their exposure during the little time they have in NL. Where these worlds collide (for instance: the dunes) it can get pretty annoying with tourists treating the cycling paths much as though they are highways and endangering people with small children with reckless overtaking at ridiculous speeds, and then getting upset when they do not have a clear path. Cycling is all about sharing the space in a nice way. It would be much better if these tourists took their anger home and advocated for better cycling infrastructure in their own countries.

andor 7y ago

I don't have the feeling that the mentality of cyclists and car drivers in The Netherlands is different, they just relaxed the situation by giving everyone enough space. I currently work in Utrecht. Walking around the city center, even in pedestrian zones, I need to be careful not to run into a bike. Passive-aggressive close passes are the norm. Last week I saw someone clean glass shards off a bike path. Nice gesture, right? Guess what happened next... a middle-aged lady whizzed by over that path, swearing "get off the bike lane you *#($@!!"

lifeisstillgood 7y ago

Speed might matter but so do traffic laws - it is a change of mentality that is needed - that this is not exercise and that the journey takes X minutes so leave early. we all do this for cars in london. we just need to for cycles

lifeisstillgood 7y ago

I think that is it - I am (middle aged fat happy) trying to get fitter and 3 miles across London each morning helps. But it's not a race track and it has taken me a long time to accept it for what it is - a commute in traffic, with minor exercise benefits I suspect a lot of people (younger and fitter) don't see it as such. And I get that. A long long time ago when I would cycle in car traffic, I upgraded my bike from an old cheap MTB to a nicer road bike. On the flat I saw a 5 mph increase in my top speed the very next day. And my commute time did not change a bit. It was not how fast I was capable of travelling but how many risks I was prepared to take that decided if I could shave more time off the commute. And this is it - it takes a certain amount of time to cycle a mile on the flat open road. In traffic it takes more time, and only by dialling up the risk-o-meter to 11 can you get it back down to "open flat" time. And that risk-o-meter means other people's blood so it's not acceptable. If I want my exercise then it's running on the pavement and press ups in the park.