6 ms·

The EV is the new iphone and everyone is struggling to create the next android.

lowdose 7y ago
I would love to see the boardroom cameras of competitors viewing Elon Musks explanation of their data aggregator ml setup in the whole deployed tesla fleet of 400.000 vehicles during autonomous car day.
- Fins 7y ago
  Most of them look down on actively killing their customers. How did that full-self-driving trip across the US in 2016 go?
  - dang 7y ago
    Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
r00fus 7y ago
This is a very interesting analogy, with Musk:Jobs and Tesla:Apple Back in the mid 00s, everyone thought the next big think looked like a smaller PC (analogy: EV cars) or a souped up phone (analogy: EV bikes/scooters). The iPhone changed the game (with Android quickly cementing that change). What happens when it's more convenient to charge or have an EV-as-service than gas-up or get a cab/uber? The automobile industry is due for a massive shakeup and the more efficient batteries and more widespread chargers get, the more likely that the future cuts out the petroleum economy.
- FullyFunctional 7y ago
  It’s been more convenient to charge than pump gas since the original Roadster, but inertia is real. However Tesla single handedly created this industry and adoption have been pretty good IMO. Norway [1] is proof that the only thing holding back good EVs is price and that’s largely about the battery. [1] incentives mades Tesla far more affordable about over 50% of ALL cars sold were Teslas (last year?)
  - kevinventullo 7y ago
    According to Tesla's website, it takes 30 min to charge with a supercharger. That seems much less convenient than the 2 or so minutes it takes to fill a tank.
    - vikramkr 7y ago
      You cant fill up your tank at home. Imagine if your phone could charge up fully within 3 minutes, but that you couldn't charge it at any outlet or overnight and needed to stop by special phone charging stations every couple days to charge it up. More convenient in some ways if it lasts longer and charges faster, but you have to go to special stations now and cant just wake up with full charge
      - cr0sh 7y ago
        One thing I can do, though, with an ICE vehicle (granted - only safely with trucks and similar) is carry a can (or more) of fuel with me, and the extra weight of that fuel is minimal in comparison. Meaning I can travel much further or refill in an emergency as needed, if I don't have any way of getting fuel otherwise. I can't see how this would ever be possible with a battery; you can't carry around a partial battery (well, you could - in theory - but install it?), and full-sized battery is going to be difficult to carry around (and possibly impossible to install). This is important for certain vehicle types - namely off-road vehicles. Such vehicles tend to consume more fuel (for various reasons), and off-road you may be far from people, let alone a gas station. Plus you may want to do a longer trail (or need to for some reason - maybe a detour forces you off your original route to a longer one) while still being able to get back to civilization at the end. Being able to stop and refuel on the trail is important. Until battery tech gets to the point where that's no longer the problem, I can't see off-road vehicles being anything but ICE. Perhaps if they could double or more the range of current batteries, that would probably do it - I say that much because off-road vehicles, due to weight, size, and such already drop current batteries to the point where you're lucky to go 75 miles on a charge off-road; though that's only known with some custom conversions - a purpose built off-road electric vehicle might be different. Which I honestly hope happens - there are a ton of advantages to be gained off-roading by electrics; the instant all-wheel traction control alone would be a game changer - not to mention the sheer torque and torque availability.
- rxhernandez 7y ago
  > The iPhone changed the game I never understand blanket statements like these about the iPhone being a game changer; the iPhone wasn't half as capable as a windows mobile phone for quite awhile; if the makers of windows mobile phones hadn't stagnated for so long I doubt Apple would have been anymore of a blip than Palm was; moreover, I'm not sure the iPhone changed the game much at all, they really just iterated on their competitors' innovations. To me, Apple used their inertia from their innovative iPods to have a great marketing success.
  - karlshea 7y ago
    > I never understand blanket statements like these about the iPhone being a game changer; the iPhone wasn't half as capable as a windows mobile phone for quite awhile The second part of your sentence answers the first part of your sentence. It's shockingly obvious why the iPhone was a game changer if you're doing anything other than looking at capabilities and checking off lists of features. > To me, Apple used their inertia from their innovative iPods to have a great marketing success. But on the other hand you think the iPod was innovative. When the iPod was released everyone said the same thing as you're saying about the iPhone ("Less space than a nomad. Lame."). In a comparison test with other MP3 players it didn't come out on top, either. Slick hardware and good UX is way more important than people in tech give it credit for. I used Windows Mobile before the iPhone came out and it was complete trash, regardless of how many features it technically had.
    - rxhernandez 7y ago
      > It's shockingly obvious why the iPhone was a game changer if you're doing anything other than looking at capabilities and checking off lists of features. It lacked MMS; it wasnt even really a phone, much less a capable smartphone. You're grossly over simplifying if you call things like that a list of features. I used windows mobile phones for years before the iPhone. The iPhone was complete trash to me because I couldn't do the basic things I was able to do on a windows phone or even my flip phones before that. > When the iPod was released everyone said the same thing as you're saying about the iPhone I said precisely nothing about the iPod release. What I implied was that the iPod was viewed as innovative by the time the iPhone was released (hence my usage of the word inertia; inertia of iPod innovation counts for precisely nothing at the release of the iPod). > Slick hardware and good UX is way more important than people in tech give it credit for. The iPhone wasnt even in the same league as WebOs phones as far as UX; why didn't Palm make it very far? (Because UX counts for a lot less than you think) The modern Apple is a marketing titan and the fact that anyone thinks they're largely innovative is a testament to their marketing prowess.
pentae 7y ago
More like Tesla is the new iPhone and everyone is struggling to create the next Android.

I would love to see the boardroom cameras of competitors viewing Elon Musks explanation of their data aggregator ml setup in the whole deployed tesla fleet of 400.000 vehicles during autonomous car day.

Fins 7y ago
Most of them look down on actively killing their customers. How did that full-self-driving trip across the US in 2016 go?
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

r00fus 7y ago

This is a very interesting analogy, with Musk:Jobs and Tesla:Apple Back in the mid 00s, everyone thought the next big think looked like a smaller PC (analogy: EV cars) or a souped up phone (analogy: EV bikes/scooters). The iPhone changed the game (with Android quickly cementing that change). What happens when it's more convenient to charge or have an EV-as-service than gas-up or get a cab/uber? The automobile industry is due for a massive shakeup and the more efficient batteries and more widespread chargers get, the more likely that the future cuts out the petroleum economy.

FullyFunctional 7y ago
It’s been more convenient to charge than pump gas since the original Roadster, but inertia is real. However Tesla single handedly created this industry and adoption have been pretty good IMO. Norway [1] is proof that the only thing holding back good EVs is price and that’s largely about the battery. [1] incentives mades Tesla far more affordable about over 50% of ALL cars sold were Teslas (last year?)
- kevinventullo 7y ago
  According to Tesla's website, it takes 30 min to charge with a supercharger. That seems much less convenient than the 2 or so minutes it takes to fill a tank.
  - vikramkr 7y ago
    You cant fill up your tank at home. Imagine if your phone could charge up fully within 3 minutes, but that you couldn't charge it at any outlet or overnight and needed to stop by special phone charging stations every couple days to charge it up. More convenient in some ways if it lasts longer and charges faster, but you have to go to special stations now and cant just wake up with full charge
    - cr0sh 7y ago
      One thing I can do, though, with an ICE vehicle (granted - only safely with trucks and similar) is carry a can (or more) of fuel with me, and the extra weight of that fuel is minimal in comparison. Meaning I can travel much further or refill in an emergency as needed, if I don't have any way of getting fuel otherwise. I can't see how this would ever be possible with a battery; you can't carry around a partial battery (well, you could - in theory - but install it?), and full-sized battery is going to be difficult to carry around (and possibly impossible to install). This is important for certain vehicle types - namely off-road vehicles. Such vehicles tend to consume more fuel (for various reasons), and off-road you may be far from people, let alone a gas station. Plus you may want to do a longer trail (or need to for some reason - maybe a detour forces you off your original route to a longer one) while still being able to get back to civilization at the end. Being able to stop and refuel on the trail is important. Until battery tech gets to the point where that's no longer the problem, I can't see off-road vehicles being anything but ICE. Perhaps if they could double or more the range of current batteries, that would probably do it - I say that much because off-road vehicles, due to weight, size, and such already drop current batteries to the point where you're lucky to go 75 miles on a charge off-road; though that's only known with some custom conversions - a purpose built off-road electric vehicle might be different. Which I honestly hope happens - there are a ton of advantages to be gained off-roading by electrics; the instant all-wheel traction control alone would be a game changer - not to mention the sheer torque and torque availability.
rxhernandez 7y ago
> The iPhone changed the game I never understand blanket statements like these about the iPhone being a game changer; the iPhone wasn't half as capable as a windows mobile phone for quite awhile; if the makers of windows mobile phones hadn't stagnated for so long I doubt Apple would have been anymore of a blip than Palm was; moreover, I'm not sure the iPhone changed the game much at all, they really just iterated on their competitors' innovations. To me, Apple used their inertia from their innovative iPods to have a great marketing success.
- karlshea 7y ago
  > I never understand blanket statements like these about the iPhone being a game changer; the iPhone wasn't half as capable as a windows mobile phone for quite awhile The second part of your sentence answers the first part of your sentence. It's shockingly obvious why the iPhone was a game changer if you're doing anything other than looking at capabilities and checking off lists of features. > To me, Apple used their inertia from their innovative iPods to have a great marketing success. But on the other hand you think the iPod was innovative. When the iPod was released everyone said the same thing as you're saying about the iPhone ("Less space than a nomad. Lame."). In a comparison test with other MP3 players it didn't come out on top, either. Slick hardware and good UX is way more important than people in tech give it credit for. I used Windows Mobile before the iPhone came out and it was complete trash, regardless of how many features it technically had.
  - rxhernandez 7y ago
    > It's shockingly obvious why the iPhone was a game changer if you're doing anything other than looking at capabilities and checking off lists of features. It lacked MMS; it wasnt even really a phone, much less a capable smartphone. You're grossly over simplifying if you call things like that a list of features. I used windows mobile phones for years before the iPhone. The iPhone was complete trash to me because I couldn't do the basic things I was able to do on a windows phone or even my flip phones before that. > When the iPod was released everyone said the same thing as you're saying about the iPhone I said precisely nothing about the iPod release. What I implied was that the iPod was viewed as innovative by the time the iPhone was released (hence my usage of the word inertia; inertia of iPod innovation counts for precisely nothing at the release of the iPod). > Slick hardware and good UX is way more important than people in tech give it credit for. The iPhone wasnt even in the same league as WebOs phones as far as UX; why didn't Palm make it very far? (Because UX counts for a lot less than you think) The modern Apple is a marketing titan and the fact that anyone thinks they're largely innovative is a testament to their marketing prowess.

pentae 7y ago

More like Tesla is the new iPhone and everyone is struggling to create the next Android.