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Serious question: how much force do you type with? The reason I ask is that I see many, many people stab laptop keyboards with a ridiculous amount of force. It

by cletus 7y ago

Serious question: how much force do you type with? The reason I ask is that I see many, many people stab laptop keyboards with a ridiculous amount of force. It actually bothers me like someone is banging on my skull, particularly for the bad keyboards you have (which includes the latest MBP). I learned to touch type in high school. At first, believe it or not, it was with manual typewriters. These actually require a lot of force, so much so that once you go to a computer keyboard (or even an electronic typewriter) there's really no going back. Low-profile keyboards (including laptops) need the lightest amount of touch to register a tap. Low profile also needs very little travel. At my best I could probably type at 70+ wpm. I haven't measured in awhile but it's probably worse (with sufficient accuracy). Coding uses a lot of symbols that a QWERTY keyboard just isn't optimized for (and typing speed doesn't tend to be the limiting factor anyway). In years and years of coding and typing on computer keyboards I've had almost zero problems with RSI or carpal tunnel or any of that. When I was typing much more (vs coding) with standard keyboards, I actually did get a little sensitivity/soreness along my ulna and the outer edge of my hand (going up to my pinky finger). It had the feeling of being inflamed (in that something cold on it relieved it). But after decades of typing that's it. And I haven't had that in years. That's pretty good. Anyway, bringing this back around... I wonder how many keyboard reliability and RSI issues can be attributed to essentially "bad" typing habits like too much force.

nvrspyx 7y ago
Even without a lot of force, the new MacBook keyboards just sound like they're being abused and typed on with a ton of force. I make a conscious effort to type softly. My typing speed suffers a bit, but I don't get the anxiety that sometimes is triggered from typing hard and my body assuming I'm in some crunch mode. I have a 2015 MacBook Pro and while there's noise when I type, you can barely hear it. I've used my SO's 2018 MacBook Pro with the new keyboard and it sounds (and feels) like I'm putting a ton of force on the keys when I'm not. It's simply a flaw with the new keyboards. They're loud and fragile. It seems both of these criticisms are met with equal hatred amongst the community. I'd like to add that the old MacBook keyboards can take quite the beating. I've seen people using 2011 and 2012 MacBooks while practically pounding on the keyboard and they have never had issues. I occasionally type hard on mine as well, but I've never had a fear of breaking the keyboard. I'm too hesitant to blame the way someone types when A) the keyboard is clearly a regression in feel, sound, and durability as well as B) the way people have typed hasn't been much of an issue with MacBooks in the past.
bradknowles 7y ago
Agreed, a lot of people pound the holy living snot out of their keyboards. Old or new, it doesn't matter. However, with the newer keyboards, even if you are a relatively light typist, it still sounds like you're pounding the holy living snot out of your keyboard. Apple addressed that somewhat with the rubber membrane in the latest generation, but we're constantly having to ask people to mute themselves when we're on a conference call and they're typing. Otherwise, it sounds like gang warfare throughout the building, and I need to reach for my 33dB NR earplugs.
Roboprog 7y ago
I miss the IBM XT & AT keyboards from when I started working programming in the 80s. That was a keyboard that you could take into battle. Even the Selectric typewriters in high school had lighter keys than those things, but those were the gold standard for computer keys back in the day. Even if the buckling springs made your neighbors deaf. Yeah, I like to beat on the keys a bit. My 2011 MBP keys feel OK, but I really hate the feel of the newer Mac keys.
jacknews 7y ago
Thiis is literally the only keyboard where I've had keycaps break, and I started on Sinclair ZX81 which maybe gives an idea how many keyboards I've used. I learned touch-typing at school on mechanical typewriters too. I've broken several with spills, but this is the only mechanical break.
snowwrestler 7y ago
This is interesting, thanks. I just got a Macbook Pro with the new keyboards and I'm really liking the lighter force and travel of the new keyboard. It just feels easier to type on. As I've gone back and forth with my 2012 Macbook Air (transfering data and settings), the 2012 keyboard has begun to feel mushy and deep. That said, the new keyboard is much louder than the old one. Even light presses produce a loud "click" type noise that the older keyboards did not.

by cletus 7y ago

nvrspyx 7y ago

Even without a lot of force, the new MacBook keyboards just sound like they're being abused and typed on with a ton of force. I make a conscious effort to type softly. My typing speed suffers a bit, but I don't get the anxiety that sometimes is triggered from typing hard and my body assuming I'm in some crunch mode. I have a 2015 MacBook Pro and while there's noise when I type, you can barely hear it. I've used my SO's 2018 MacBook Pro with the new keyboard and it sounds (and feels) like I'm putting a ton of force on the keys when I'm not. It's simply a flaw with the new keyboards. They're loud and fragile. It seems both of these criticisms are met with equal hatred amongst the community. I'd like to add that the old MacBook keyboards can take quite the beating. I've seen people using 2011 and 2012 MacBooks while practically pounding on the keyboard and they have never had issues. I occasionally type hard on mine as well, but I've never had a fear of breaking the keyboard. I'm too hesitant to blame the way someone types when A) the keyboard is clearly a regression in feel, sound, and durability as well as B) the way people have typed hasn't been much of an issue with MacBooks in the past.

bradknowles 7y ago

Agreed, a lot of people pound the holy living snot out of their keyboards. Old or new, it doesn't matter. However, with the newer keyboards, even if you are a relatively light typist, it still sounds like you're pounding the holy living snot out of your keyboard. Apple addressed that somewhat with the rubber membrane in the latest generation, but we're constantly having to ask people to mute themselves when we're on a conference call and they're typing. Otherwise, it sounds like gang warfare throughout the building, and I need to reach for my 33dB NR earplugs.

Roboprog 7y ago

I miss the IBM XT & AT keyboards from when I started working programming in the 80s. That was a keyboard that you could take into battle. Even the Selectric typewriters in high school had lighter keys than those things, but those were the gold standard for computer keys back in the day. Even if the buckling springs made your neighbors deaf. Yeah, I like to beat on the keys a bit. My 2011 MBP keys feel OK, but I really hate the feel of the newer Mac keys.

jacknews 7y ago

Thiis is literally the only keyboard where I've had keycaps break, and I started on Sinclair ZX81 which maybe gives an idea how many keyboards I've used. I learned touch-typing at school on mechanical typewriters too. I've broken several with spills, but this is the only mechanical break.

snowwrestler 7y ago

This is interesting, thanks. I just got a Macbook Pro with the new keyboards and I'm really liking the lighter force and travel of the new keyboard. It just feels easier to type on. As I've gone back and forth with my 2012 Macbook Air (transfering data and settings), the 2012 keyboard has begun to feel mushy and deep. That said, the new keyboard is much louder than the old one. Even light presses produce a loud "click" type noise that the older keyboards did not.